SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Vitals and Values Podcast. And we have a fun episode ahead, I am sure, because we have an amazing guest. So we are welcome today. We're with Dr. Jessica Lowe, and she is a board-certified neurologist and epileptologist, a medical educator and creator of Dr. Breen Barbie, a social media platform dedicated to making neuroscience accessible, engaging, and evidence-based. And I found her randomly on social media, and she was so gracious to join us on this podcast. She is originally from the Bahamas, which I just recently learned, which I think is very cool. And she previously served as the lead epileptologist and neurohospitalist at Bayview, or sorry, excuse me, Bay Health Medical Center and currently practices in teleneurology. She was recognized as Delaware's top doctor in 2024 and the American Heart Association Women of Impact in 2025. Through her work in medicine, advocacy, and digital education, she is passionate about improving neurological health literacy, challenging medical misinformation, and empowering patients and physicians alike.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

And most importantly, most importantly, we spent the last 15 minutes just chopping it up. Out of that entire bio, she's a presence. I can tell you in the in the in the in the 10 minutes we've been having a conversation, she's a presence.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Me? What? No. I'm a bit of a shrinking violet. Oh right. Absolutely not. It's the it's the Bahamian, it's the Caribbean flair, it's the it's the dance for 18 years, brew up on stage.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Like Oh, did you really?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Which is it works really well for social media, actually, because you you have that, you know, stage presence translates into camera presence quite easily. And I think that's what a lot of people struggle with when they're uh trying to get, particularly as physicians, uh, try to be, you know, break into that social media space. It's awkward and hard to be in front of a camera. Well, and while you're also trying to translate very complex things. Um, so you know, that I didn't have that barrier, I think, with the the camera being camera shy uh or not having that camera presence.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

And I'm so curious to know how you ended up in the social media platform that you're in currently. But I found it so fascinating too when I reached out to you, just cold DM'd that you and I were training together in residency at the same time at the same hospital.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I can't believe it. I mean, it's insane. Like we literally were there the end at the same time, 2016.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

We could have walked right past each other.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

I'm sure we did many times. Like, you know, it's just small world. And it just, I was so overjoyed to see that you had trained at Grand Rapids. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What? Because I kind of looked at, you know, your pager, you know, when you had kind of started practicing, and I was like, I'm pretty sure we overlapped here. So it was always, it was, it was wonderful for someone from Grand Rapids to reach out. I was like, absolutely, we're doing this. It's so great.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

But so you do a lot with your social media platform where you talk about neurology and epilepsy, which you're an expert in, but then you have other kind of platforms that you talk about. But to start it out, what got you interested in neurology in the first place and epileptology specifically?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yes. Um, honestly, I knew I wanted to be a neurologist since uh senior year of high school. Uh once I decide that I make a decision, it's happening. That's pretty much how it goes. And so, you know, I I was in high school in the Bahamas. Uh, you know, I was doing an AP psych class. All the neuroscience was so cool, so fascinating. I was like, oh, I like this. Um, I've decided I'm gonna be a neuroscientist. Um when I went to undergrad, I did bio, like we all do. And then I did a neurobiology concentration. So with that, I I got into the lab, right? So I did like three years of neuroscience research with the PhDs and you know, just like being an undergrad in their PhD lab. And I absolutely hated it. Uh, you know, because you're just like you're in your hood with your little pipettes and your earphones, and no one's talking to each other. And you know, me, I am a little bit talkative. So I'm like trying to talk to these guys and and gals and be like, how was your weekend? What are you doing? And they're like, Why are you talking to me? And so it was just like very, I was like, I like the science, but I miss that human interaction. And so it was obvious neurology, right? You know, and then we go, we all go through medical school and we kind of dabble in different things. And so I I was pretty sure I wanted to be a neurologist, but I said, let me give the other things a shot, you know, who knows? And nothing really came close, you know. Neurology was everything that I thought it would be and more. And uh, you know, there were some other very cool arenas and and uh specialties, but it just it didn't quite have it. And then once I got into neurology, then it's you know, like, all right, well, what's what are we gonna subspecialize in in if anything? You know, some people don't subspecialize, and that's fine because neurology is such a vast uh field. So yeah, I kind of went back and forth between neuroICU, neurohospitalists for a bit, and then I got into Epi. And um, once I got into the EMU and saw all of the crazy cool science and things that they do there when you're doing depth electrodes and you're doing brain mapping and and you know, spect injections and water testing and pecs and megs. And I was just like, this is so cool. My uh mentor would call it demon magic because it was just it literally, guys. I mean, you know, you you've got these depth electrodes like skewers down in someone's brain and they're awake and you're you're at the computer activating different points and seeing what it does to the person. You know, it as as so that we can decide if it's safe to take that part of the brain out or if it's safe to put an electrode of one of the devices that we're gonna put in for their epilepsy. It is so cool. It is so cool. And so I was like, nah, this is it, because it's epilepsy to me is like the perfect combination of all the sciences because you have the biology of the brain, and then you have the chemistry, because the drugs that we use are our our subspecialty has the most medications, I think, out of any uh of the neurosubspecialties. And you really have to, you know, there's some heavy hitters. You gotta know what you're doing, all right. And then there's the physics of it, which is the EEGs, you know, the um, like I said, the met the mags, the pe the pets, the mags, the wada, you know, the depth electrodes, the brain mapping, like all of the really cool physics of it. And so it's just a perfect combination of all three of them for the the big science nerd in me. So I was like, yeah, man, this is it. This is this is easy, an easy decision.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I like how excited you are about about.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

I know I nerd out. I love it when people are like, why'd you pick epilepsy? I'm like, Well, I'm so glad you asked.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I actually have an epilepsy experience. You do? Not me per I witnessed it. So I was in high school.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Oh no. I was like, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

When I was in high school, I had a buddy in high school that we were watching a T watching some projector movie or something. He wanted to go to the bathroom. He's walking out the front, and the projector was the screen was in front, projector behind, doors in the front. So he had to walk through and he turned and he looked straight into the projector, and all of a sudden went straight down into a seizure. And everyone's just like, What do we do? Oh yeah. I was like, I don't know, 17 maybe, and you're just all sitting there, just he's just full, full convulsions, and the whole and everyone's just uh just kind of deer in the headlights, and then he came and it it ended relatively quickly. And then she's like and he's just like everyone's just sitting there going, uh, and this this kid was like, What? He just was on the floor. That's fascinating. Why am I on the floor? Yeah, and and it was uh that was fascinating. That was fascinating. Yeah, I I have not witnessed that.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

At least none of you did the thing that uh that a lot of people still do, which is panic and try to stick something in his mouth because we don't do that. So I'm gonna take this opportunity to plug that, all right? Because people still do it. You know, back in the day, they would say you gotta stop someone from swallowing their tongue. You can't swallow your tongue, it was physiologically impossible. All right. It is like it's attacked. You're not gonna swallow it. You're not gonna swallow it. Uh so people go and they try to shove something in the person's mouth, they break off teeth that they aspirate, or they clamp down and the person trying to help loses a finger. No, uh, you know, it's just never a good situation. And so I always take an opportunity to remind people because you're trying to help, right? You you think you're doing the right thing, you know, uh you're being a good Samaritan. Appreciate that. Just lay them on their side and time it and call 911. Uh if it lasts more than five minutes. Yeah. Don't put anything in people's mouth when they're seizing. Noted.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Noted. Is there anything else? Are there what are the top things about epilepsy that you think are misunderstood or incorrect that maybe you do more posts on?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Um, so the big one again is people think they could that you can swallow your tongue. So I I educate on that as much as as possible. Again, I just had a a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago be like, hey, this guy had a seizure. I put his tie in his mouth. And I'm like, no, don't do that. Don't do that. We we haven't been doing that since the 70s. I don't, I don't know. Whenever, whenever that came out, you know. I think the other thing that a lot of people don't understand is that not all seizures shake. Everyone has this idea of a seizure, which is of tip a generalized chronic chronic seizure. It's what you see on TV because it's the most dramatic presentation, right? But people are staring off, or they could just be sitting here having a complete conversation and smelling something, or the thumb could be twitching, and that could be a seizure. And so what I tell people is when you're dealing with epilepsy, it is an abnormal network in the brain that's inspiring. And so depending on what part of the brain that network lives in will determine the physical manifestation of the seizure, right? So if it spreads across the brain, yes, you will have that generalized phone clonic convulsion. Okay, but if it stays in that one little spot and that spot is responsible for vision, well, you'll have visual symptoms. If it's sensation, you might the sensory strip, you'll have some numbness or tingling. If it's the motor strip, you might have some twitching. And if it's in the deeper structures, you will likely have some loss of awareness or, you know, like I said, staring or kind of some picking at clothing that's not quite intentional, that kind of thing. And so a lot of people, I think, don't understand how many seizure types there are, nor should they. They're not physicians, they're not epileptologists, but but for the general public, I really like them to know that, you know, not every seizure shakes. And so if something weird is happening that and it's repetitive and it happens the same way every single time, that's something that you're gonna want to get evaluated and discussed. Because there are people that have focal seizures that go on for years and they are misdiagnosed because they never spread and manifest as the big shaking one, but they're still having those seizures. A great one is the aura of abdominal fluttering, you know, repetitive abdominal fluttering. And so usually these patients get diagnosed with anxiety, right? Oh, you have anxiety. You just have you have that anxiety. And then eventually something happens where it gets weird and they they land in in our clinic, and I'm like, girl, you've been having seizures for 10 years. Um so it's it's great for people to know that it's not just that big shaking seizure because that helps them, you know, at least maintain that low threshold for being like, is something wrong? And getting evaluated sooner so they can get the right treatment. So those are the two big ones that that I like to educate on. And then also the third one, which is the really sad one, is that people don't realize that seizures can be life-threatening. And, you know, I I think they think it's dramatic and you're gonna you can have a seizure and shake and perhaps hurt yourself. And if that happens in an unsafe environment, then yes, that could lead to physical death or you know, physical injury that could result in death, I should say. But the seizures themselves can actually also be life-threatening. And that's where Sudap, where sudden unexpected death and epilepsy comes in. And that's a conversation that I think we need to have way more often because, you know, I think when when Cameron Boyce passed away, the Cameron Boyce Foundation, Cameron Boyce the Disney star, he died of Sudepp. And I think that shifted the culture a little bit around the discussion of Sudep. And even now, when I post about it, um, uh, you know, even just I think two days ago, I posted because November is Ephilepsy Awareness Month. So I'm I'm really, you know, doing my epi content quite a bit. And I posted about Sudepp, and in the comments, so many people saying, I did not know this, or, you know, I lost um my loved one to this, and I wish I had known. I think that that's um something that a lot of people don't think. They think you shake and then you wake up and you're probably a little out of it, and then you go back to life as normal. But no, if if seizures are uncontrolled, they can be life-threatening, and there are things that we do to minimize that risk. And I think that that conversation needs to be had much more often, much more loudly, not just for the patients, but their families and other healthcare professionals who perhaps don't know that, who might be like yourself, Laura, who might they might see you first before they see me, right? You know? And so um it's it's definitely something that I'm quite vocal about and is a big, really important thing that I think a lot of people do not know about epilepsy that they really should.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

And there's there can be so many heavy things about epilepsy like that. And then when I think epilepsy and neurology, I don't think social media, like yeah, lots of followers, but you did it. And how what was that process? How did you deny?

SPEAKER_02 13:52

It was an accident. It was an accident.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Listen, okay, like I said, I'll be honest, I'll be honest, as someone who understands social media more than most, it's not an accident for her. Because of she's a present, she's a present.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

And like I would it wasn't the plan, David.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

It wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

So it's funny because one of my girlfriends said she was like, it was like you woke up one day and just decided I'm gonna be an influencer. And I was like, yeah, that's pretty much what happened. But no, so it it happened as a joke, okay? So my and I show this on on quite a few of the podcasts that I do. I keep it in this drawer. So one of my my girlies, my nurse girlies, a sweet friend of mine, for my birthday, she got me a couple of things. The one of the things she got me was a Dr. Barbie sticker. Okay. This was my badge. Okay. I this was this was when I was working at Bay Health. I had my badge here. And then on the back of this placard, I would have, you know, I've got like women belong in stem, not today, Satan. Like, you know, you put your little, you know, you've got your little personality on the back of your bad. So she got me a Dr. Barbie sticker. I said, I love it. She's like, look, it's you. I said, ha ha, very funny. Stuck it on the back of my badge, never thought I didn't think anything of it. The patients loved it, dude. They loved it because your badge flips around, right? And I'd be in the middle of talking to these patients about in the hospital, okay? About, hey, you just had a stroke or, you know, something scary. If you're seeing a neurologist in the hospital, something scary is probably happening, right? And they'd get this smile on their face, and I'm like, what? Is there something on like what's going on? And they'd be like, oh, I just saw your sticker. I'm like, oh, you know, and so that happened enough that I was like, if this small thing could put a smile on a patient's face on what is arguably one of the hardest days of their lives, then that's wonderful. I love that. Gonna lean into it. And then families started calling me Dr. Barbie.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

So the nurses would call and say, hey, Dr. Lowe. This family's asking when Dr. Barbie's coming to see him. I'm like, okay, I'm on my way. And then my colleagues will be like, Jess, the family is disappointed that they don't have the brain Barbie. And I'm like, one of my colleagues actually said that to me. And I was like, huh. And then my nurses said, Dr. Lowe, you gotta make a TikTok, right? Because as you said, I have a little bit of a presence. And so I was like, girl, I'm too old for TikTok. I I'm Instagram or Facebook. Like I TikTok was not it for me. I'm not of that generation. They're like, no, no, no, you gotta do a TikTok, you guys use TikTok. And so they were bugging me about it for so long. I said, okay, fine. I will make a TikTok. I figured it'll go on for, you know, a couple of months, maybe. We'll do some TikTok dances and then it'll fizzle out. It's fine. Did not fizzle out. Did not fizzle out. And so I um, you know, it I was slowly growing. 10,000 followers. I was like, uh-oh, okay, this is this is cool. And then that was right around the time I got into the Woman of Impact campaign for the American Heart Association. So, you know, we were campaigning and competing for fundraising. Uh, and so then I started using my platform for that to educate on cardiac cardiovascular um and cerebrovascular health. And I started seeing people really like the education. It's not just about the fun, oh, TikTok dances in med humor. Like, people are actually out here looking for accurate information about their health. And so I started leaning into that a little bit, and then I think it must have been April of 24. I had a video go viral, and that was the end of it. Everything took on from I yeah, it was, you know, and it was a video that I kind of filmed on a whim. You know, it was the McDonald's migraine hack, which was McDonald's migraine hack.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I don't know this.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

This is called the McMigraine. It's called the McMigraine. This was when I was done the American Heart Association campaign, obviously, because that's a little so the the McMigraine is a hack that's actually quite well known in the migraine community. And so what had happened was people had been messaging me and asking me to explain why it worked. And I was like in the middle of the American Heart Association campaign, I was like, I cannot be talking about McDonald's right now. And um, so I I think it was a week after the campaign ended, I was walking out of the hostel, I was so tired, it was just a long day, and I got in my car and I got a notification on my phone, the banner popped down, and I saw someone again asking, can you explain the McMigraine? And I said, you know what? Fine. The campaign's over. I'm sitting in my car, I open it, I'm like, rattle it off, edit it, post it, go home, go to sleep, wake up to my friends being like, girl, you gonna viral? Like, what? And so the McMigraine is if you get your migraine, Aura, and you're out and about, you know, and don't have your meds, you know, this is America, there's a McDonald's on every corner. Like it shouldn't be, but there is. Yeah. Large fries and a large coke, and it stops the migraine. And it does help. I have used it once or twice, again, in a bind, you know, because with my migraine, I lose actually, I get a a a bit of a bit a visual cut. And so if I'm out driving by myself, I need to be able to see to drive home, you know. And so um uh I've I've done it a couple of times and it it has held me enough to get home and get my meds. And I mean, if you think about it, right? McDonald's, very salty fries, sodium. Uh, the Coke has some caffeine in it, you know, uh trigger is hunger or drop or declining glucose levels for a lot of people, you're getting carbs in. And so it's not specific to McDonald's, it's just that it becomes a convenience thing and it has happened enough for people that they have coined it the McMigraine, right? And so in the video, I explained why that worked and then explained the healthier alternatives to a large fries and a coke. But yeah, it just took off. And that's when it kind of clicked for me that oh, the migraine community in particular is very vague into social media and really out here looking for information. And so I really started leaning into that migraine education, and then I was like, epilepsy is like there's there is not enough awareness and information about epilepsy out here. So I was like, uh again, say less. I'm on it, you know? And it just it took off.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I mean, I it's it's so interesting with that whole the whole bit where I think both you and Lara have said it, where whether people there there is a large percentage of people on social media that whether doctors want to support it or not, go to social media for education on what's going on. Now, and when push comes to shove, most people genuinely want the right information because they're usually the ones dealing with it. So it's so you sit there and go, Well, Joe Blow's social media influencer says obviously there's a lot of misinformation on social media, and you look up as a physician going, I'm above social media for education for what I'm doing. And it's like if you if if if physicians hold that lens, you're allowing the majority of your patients to be influenced by charlatans, and it's just and and so like now what is the what is the best way to deal with it? And that's a that's a whole thing to unpack. But like at least at this point in time, the best way to combat poor information is better information.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Like that's just get better information out there.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Most people will lean into it. They go, okay, cool. This person's charismatic, they generally care, they're knowledgeable in it, they're teaching me things. Okay, cool. I don't have to be a terrified of X, Y, and Z because this person who's more educated explains it.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Well, and so I mean, it sounds like you got into social media kind of almost by accident.

unknown 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

But now you do talk, I think, some on your platform about the importance of what David's saying, the voices of true information. And so can you speak more on that?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

And I think I have a video on that pinned actually, because they put out a study um actually getting it and and The fact that we're starting to see, you know, these major journals put out studies regarding physicians on social media is encouraging because the science, the scientific community, the medical community, you know, we we have this idea of professionalism and prestige. And, you know, when you think of those things, social media isn't really at the top of the list. You know, you think social media, you think someone do a TikTok dances and um, but we're starting to see the data actually come out regarding the amount of patients that seek out medical information on social media. And the numbers will blow your mind.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Because gone are the days where we're Googling, we're just Googling. Now we're Googling not so much anymore. Now we're chat GBTing and we're going to TikTok. How many times have you had a patient come in and say, okay, well, I saw on TikTok that I should be doing X, Y, and Z. Okay. And they're the wellness space um is a is a very large space. And while there are um very uh um respectable creators in that space, there are a lot of, to use your word, David, charlatans that are also in that space and are capitalizing on people's fear and their lack of information. Because that's what that fear is founded in, right? Because if you're educated, you will be less fearful, or at least you will have enough understanding to use discernment when you see someone telling you that, well, to cure your epilepsy, you just need to do this parasite cleanse and some scalp cracking and say, that looks like nonsense, right? So for me as a physician on social media and a lot of the, as they call us, med fluencers, whole turn. Okay, um, a lot of us are, you know, we speak to this because you have to meet your patients where they are. Whether you like it or not, this is where your patients are going to get their medical information. And if you do not show up there, someone else will. And you cannot guarantee that that person is educated in the field, has the credentials, and is not trying to, like I said, take advantage of their fear by selling them a supplement that's linked in their body. And I think that the hesitation of physicians showing up on social media, it is multifaceted. Like I said, you know, we're scientists, right? We're not really, you know, interested in being in front of the camera so much. So there's that component of it, most of us. There's that component of it. And then there is, like I said, the component of you kind of battle with, well, what are my colleagues going to think of me from a professionalism lens, right? Are they going to take me less seriously because I'm on social media? But then there's also the institutional component of it, right? There are a lot of institutions who have very strict social media policies. They don't want their physicians online. They feel it's a liability, okay? And so there's also, you know, having to navigate that depending on who your employer is and whatnot, especially if you're working in a large, you know, academic institution. And I've I've actually given a talk on this exact topic at the American Epilepsy Society. I used to be did a women's in epilepsy brunch and they asked me to speak on, you know, digital advocacy in this era of medicine. And, you know, these are some of the things that I talked about. And while, you know, the idea or, you know, getting an institution to change their social media policy and catch up with the time, so to speak, that's going to take some time. The fact that we are seeing journals that we all respect putting out this data, right? That I think is the beginning of that shift in perspective. Because, you know, God are the days where patients are going to the library to look up information, right? And for the physicians who've been doing this for a long time, they have seen this evolution of access to information for their patients, right? Way back in the day in the 80s, it was just the physician. There were no computers that, you know, if you wanted to know something, you actually had to go to the library and look it up. You had an encyclopedia on your in your living room, you know, that you could you could look up. And so there was, um, in a way, agents had a little more control of the information that their patients were consuming and could make sure that that was valid and evidence-based. Um, and then with the evolution of, you know, we now have the computers, okay, cool. Then came Google. And for the longest time, we were all kind of being like, oh God, my patients Googling their symptoms. Everyone thinks they've got a brain tumor, right? And there was that frustration with that component where you're like, oh God, they Googled the symptoms and you know, they've gotten all this misinformation. This era is like Google times 100, right? Because between ChatGBT, who, by the way, I'm sure you saw in the media, 31-year-old woman is now dead because Chat GPT told her to wean her anti-seizure medications. Okay. Hello. Can we talk about dangerous? That's the era that we're living in, guys, as physicians. And then on top of that, because ChatGPT isn't making money off of telling her to wean her social media, uh, we wean her anti-seizure medications, right? Wean your social media, guys. ChatGPT is not profiting from telling her to wean her anti-seizure medications. Now you tack on the layer of profits from social media where you have these individuals who are on social media and guys, they have millions of followers. Some of the biggest creators in the wellness space who you're telling your patients you don't need your cholesterol medicine. Stop your blood pressure medicine and just take, you know, colloidal silver.

unknown 27:36

What?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

You know, I like, oh, I don't wash my hands with silver, I wash them with colloidal silver. Oh, the biggest one is the parasite cleanse that apparently cures everything. Okay. These individuals have millions of followers. They have a convincing presence, as you've said a couple of times, David. Okay, and they got a ring light, and they have money to be made. And so now we have ChatGBT actually going so far as taking the information that one previously could find on Google and they were left to interpret it themselves. Now ChatGBT is interpreting it and making medical decisions with that information for the patient. And then on top of that, you've got the individuals who are capitalizing on this on social media with all these links in their bio who are now making money off of your patient sphere. So whether you as a physician understand social media, like social media, think it's, you know, the best or worst thing that happens to the world, or think it's unprofessional or cringe or whatever it is, your patients are here and you can either nip it in the bud and try to get valid information out there so your patients don't end up harmed, or you can see them in the ER after they've been harmed by the misinformation, and it is now more difficult for you to fix what has been done irreversibly to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Choice is yours, guys. It's it's so fascinating. It's so fascinating because we we we sit there and talk about this all the time. I can't tell you how many episodes we've had to, and every time I clip it, it doesn't matter. It's like clockwork. Doctors do not make money prescribing medications. It is illegal. It is illegal, it is illegal. There is not one person that directly makes comments. And then it's fascinating because the same people on social media who make this claim, which is objectively, factually, and incredibly wrong, are the ones making money prescribed or selling, not parasitically.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Selling selling the parasite cleanse.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Parasite cleanses, peptides, all the above. And it's like it's it's fascinating because there is argument to conflict of interest. I totally get it. There, there is absolute, but just take it totality. If you're gonna, if you're gonna question a physician's conflict of interest clause, which is which is a reasonable thing, you I hope you would have that same conflict of interest concern with uh with John Bill John saying, I have this peptide stack that I sell Wolverine for 330 330 bucks and uh I quietly make 190 off of it. But don't trust your doctor. It's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

It's it's it's the cognitive gap and the disconnect. And I think that the reason, one of the many reasons that they have been able to uh get into that space and really capitalize on that is because of the many ways that the healthcare system is broken. Because the broken healthcare system has done a lot of things to both physicians and patients and has resulted in this overwhelming mistrust of physicians of healthcare. And it has also led to shorter appointment times and less time to educate in the clinic, right? How are you to, at least for me, I'm I'm talking to a patient that has dementia and they're three family members, or I'm talking to a patient who has had a stroke and has issues with language, or I'm talking to a patient who has epilepsy and is on four anti-seizure medications and has cognitive slowing as a result of that. You want me to educate them, see them, examine them and get orders and notes in in 15 minutes? No. But what has to happen? They have to be seen, examined, and ordered. So what falls to the wayside? The education. Right. And so when you do not have time to spend with your patients because the hospital is run by an MBA who is more concerned about profits than patients, okay, and just wants to get those appointments in, right? Where do patients go? They leave that appointment thinking, okay, well, they told me I have this really scary neurological diagnosis and they they give me these meds and I don't know what they are, and I don't know what they do, and I don't know how I'm gonna feel. I need to look this up. Where do they go to look it up? Like I said, not the library, not Google. They go to ChatGPT and social media. All right. And so that is where these we have created this opportunity for these people to get in there and really lay down roots and get these huge followings. The fact that this person who is selling you a parasite cleanse has two million followers, should tell you that's two million people who were looking for answers that they felt they couldn't get elsewhere. We need more time with our patients to educate. And you know who's also not gonna educate? An exhausted burnt-out doctor. Right? And so as we are putting more and more on physicians, not just clinical work, but administrative work, you're staying up until midnight getting your notes in, you're calling insurance to fight for those medications that people apparently think that I get a kickback on. If I get a kickback, why do I have to fight the insurance for it? I don't understand. Make it make sense. Anyway, okay, fine. But you know, all of those additional tasks that are now being placed on positions, you're exhausted. I don't have time to sit here and educate you for an additional 20 minutes on top of doing all of the actual clinical things that I need to do to keep you healthy and safe. So, what are you gonna do? You leave your appointment frustrated, you leave your appointment feeling like you don't have answers, you leave your appointment feeling like your doctor doesn't care about you. And so you say, doctors don't care. Doctors just want money. Here come the charlatans. Oh, yeah, doctors are hiding the truth. Here's what your doctor doesn't want you to know. Doctors are getting kickbacks from the big pharma. Doctors are just here to make money. They want to keep you sick. But here it is the parasite lens that will cure all of your problems for a convenient $499 linked in my bio. Sir, get up, get out of here. But again, we have these individuals would not be able to optimize and capitalize on that if healthcare allowed us to practice medicine the way we want to practice. We have to give healthcare back to clinical experts, back to physicians, back to nurses, back to people who understand what people need for their health and people who actually want to help people achieve a healthy lifestyle. And I'm not, you know, I know a lot of people think, oh, she's anti-wellness, she's anti-wellness, she's always ragging on the wellness influence. I'm not, I'm not anti-wellness. I'm anti-misinformation. And I have a lot of girlies and guys in the wellness space, and they're there talking about moving the body and, you know, making sure that, you know, you're getting your sunlight and, you know, you're not smoking, basically all of the things that doctors have told you to do for decades. You know, eat right, exercise, don't smoke. Okay. And, you know, they will incorporate data that is things that are proven to be effective, things that are, and they will have those disclaimers. This is not medical advice. I am not a physician. They are very transparent about their credentials or lack thereof and the limitations of their expertise. I am completely fine with that. I am fine with a holistic approach to your health. Okay. Modern medicine sometimes does not have all of the answers. And if you doing something a little more holistic helps you feel good in a safe way, go for gold. I am happy for you. Okay. But it's the individuals in the wellness space who their interest is not you feeling better. Their interest is not their interest is making a buck. And the best way that they can make a book is by capitalizing on your fear and your lack of information and instilling mistrust in your physicians. And that's where we as physicians have to show up and course correct. Because, and guys, we're already losing this game. We're losing this game, okay? Because who do you think is gonna get more views on a video? Someone who has this sensational claim that's unregulated, who can say anything because they have no license to lose, or someone who's here trying to actually explain the pathophysiology of, you know, migraine and Parkinson's disease and epilepsy. Only, you know, when we as when we're going for views, all right, one of those things has a better book and it's gonna get more clicks. And so then what does the algorithm do? The algorithm pushes that video. So we're losing up here, y'all. We're losing up here.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

We need to do you know, so do you follow Lane by any chance? Lane Norton? Bio Lane. So Lane has a PhD in nutrition, he he's very prominent in the space, been around for a long time. He's got a million followers and stuff like that. And he just made a post recently because the data's out there. There was a study done a few years ago, or within the last few years, on uh the dissemination of information on social media and how well-grounded evidence-based information runs at like one-fifth or one-sixth of the speed of fear-based misinformation. Absolutely. And like the the the fear-based, the negative. And so Lane made a post recently because he was getting flack for making a lot of these negative videos towards a lot of the grifter social media people.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

They will come for you.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Well, they will come for you, and they get he gets pushback for saying, Hey, you just seem like a hater because all you do is make this negative content calling people out. And he goes, Let me get let me, he goes, I I get I get your argument, and I I understand that, but there's also two sides of this coin. I make a knowledge-based, well-grounded educational content, it gets one-tenth of views. Every time I make something outrageous, it gets all the so you you got I I got it's it's such a dance and a poll. How have you do you I have I will admit, I haven't got a deep dive into all of your social media. There's a lot in there. Do you just lean towards pure positivity, or how do you do that for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 37:47

I'll call you out. One of the first videos I saw you do was so funny. It was like you pretending to be an influencer in the neurologist.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

You're in the eye feeling the well influencers there. Listen, and that's a video. Listen, so what happened was one of these wellness people who have very large uh following took my video, stitched it, and was like, This doctor's making fun of patients.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Classic. That's not what I took from that.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

But anyway, she has this large following. And so all of her followers started coming to my page and being like, You're a pharma shill. That's the new thing now. Okay, you're a farmer shill. You're the worst, you. I hope you lose your license. You're the devil. Okay. And then, you know, there's always a couple of people who are just a little unhinged, and and they were like, you know, he he did not threaten me directly. He wished, he wished someone would go ahead and do something like that. Wow. Um, people are a little bit unhinged at times. And this is another reason some people are a little hesitant to get on social media. Um but yeah, they they really, when they see a physician calling out misinformation, they latch onto that and try to again get ahead of it, so to speak, right? And say, hey, look, this, this, and what do they do? They take the narrative and shift it to not, oh, they're calling me out as a wellness influencer, but they're making fun of you as a patient. And because they do that in a convincing way, again, and these individuals lack a certain degree of discernment because they again have so much, they already have so much resentment and frustration toward healthcare professionals, okay. They go, yeah, I could see that. And I'm like, no. And you know, once you explain the logic to them, they go, huh, okay. But you know, they're those individuals who will stand 10 toes down on that. And and those are the individuals that, you know, if you're that deep into the wellness space and you know, you think of it, you're not my target audience, okay? I'm not here trying to change your mind about, you know, wellness versus medicine. You you go ahead and do what you want to do. I will see you in the ER when it inevitably goes out. Okay. Um, and I will hope that I can help you. And I still will. Uh, but my target audience is the individual, the individuals who are really just genuinely out there looking for information or come the fence. Um, and and I think that um for me, there's a lot of positivity. Okay. Um, but if someone is being, you know, really inappropriate or whatever, you know, it's an automatic block. I'm not gonna engage, right? I'm like, this is not, this is not worth my time. But if they are being negative in such a way in the comments that you can see that they have a misunderstanding or a misconception that would be important for others to see and watch you dismantle that, I will respond and then I'll pin their comment so people can see it. And you know, or you know, sometimes people will send uh a comment or they'll comment something and then I'll make a video on it. And you know, I always do this thing where while I am, I've got some flair and I've I've got some uh some fire to me. I will I will clap back at you. Oh, and it's one of the things like on my intro slide, I'm like, listen, if you're coming in here with misinformation, I'm gonna call it out with my whole chest. And unlike you, I actually have a medical degree. So I will do it better than you. I assure you of that. Okay, so don't do it. Okay. I will meet you where you are sometimes. But you know, what I will do if, again, if there's a teaching point in that negative comment, I I'll even make a video of it. But what I do is I always prop out the name and the photo, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

That's exactly I do the same thing. It's easy to my same same rep.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

And I think that that's just a part of creator responsibility because just how that wellness creator took my thing and posted it, and then one of her followers is a little unhinged and you know, said something that was just completely off the, you know, which does not happen often, but you know, I want to be responsible because while I believe that my followers are good people and and would never do something like that, I can't speak for all of them. And so for me, my intention is to educate and to highlight the misconception, not send the internet after this individual, right? And so I think there is a way to clap back at negativity that still maintains some of your integrity, but yeah, it it's it's everyone has to figure out their own way and what they're comfortable with. I know some of these very large med fluencers, they don't respond at all. Okay. And I think that for them, that makes sense because when you have two million followers, first of all, you can't keep up with comments. And, you know, they have, you know, they've built a brand that they are, you know, building and protecting. And they may have some uh deals or with organizations that you have to be mindful of that PR and optics. I am, you know, I have 221,000 followers on Instagram and I think like 129 on TikTok. And so I'm still like a smaller influencer, and so I do still have some liberties where I can clap back and be say, but you know, that's why I also make videos showing my personality and showing that stats so that should I continue to build this brand and you know, you know, like get in line with an organization or something, they know what they're getting. I am who I am, okay? I I've always been this person. I'm not watering down anything for anyone, anywhere, anytime. Okay. It's not gonna happen. So if this is not what you like, that's fine. We don't have to like each other. Don't come on my page acting foolish, okay? And you also don't need to hire me to do anything. That's that is okay because I have never lacked authenticity on my page. I'm gonna show you exactly who I am, what I stand for. And if that's not your vibe, cool, no heart feelings. Okay. Um, so I think that me clapping back, that's very on brand for me. Um, but I still do it in a way that protects that individual who oftentimes, despite their negative comment, that comment, I'm still a physician and empathetic, that comment is coming from a place of fear and a place of being misinformed. You know? And so when it is, like I said, if it's a completely nasty off the rails comment, and honestly, some of those really nasty off-the-rail comments, and even that they're bots. And I think that, yeah, like that person that sent me that very unhinged, I was like, is this a bot? Is it and I was like, anyway, block, delete, report. You can report those individuals, and Instagram takes them off because you can't say certain things, right? Um, but a lot of them, those unhinged things, they're really, I think they're bots. They're really just trying to get people going. But the actual human encounters where people are responding with, you know, disagreeing with you, it being negative, calling you whatever it is that they're calling you, or, you know, big medicine, big pharma, yada yada. A lot of that, like I said, is is based on them being misinformed and having consumed incorrect information. And so I do try to maintain that empathy and and just think about it from that lens. And so again, that's why I always protect their identity, because I don't need anybody calling someone's job and saying they posted this on social media, and then next thing you know, someone is unemployed because they commented and they're mad at me. No, no, no, no. That's not what we're here to do. That's not what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

We're here to so if there's physicians out there listening and they're thinking, maybe I should get on social media, but I'm not nearly as engaging as Dr. Lowe and I don't know how to start. And then, okay, say they do start and they get very little engagement. I think that's what sometimes will drive physicians away then, because it's like, well, why bother? I don't know how to do this. So I don't know if you have any thoughts or recommendations or encouragement for these people.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Keep going. Just keep going. Like, you know, I think I think that everyone feels this way, whether you're a physician or not. When you first get on social media, you feel, oh my God, this is so cringe, right? And then, you know, your videos got like a hundred views. You're like, ugh. And then you know what's what's terrible is that a lot of the people that you know are not even gonna support you, right? They're not like it's usually the strangers who are clapping loud for you. The people that you know are like, girl, what are you doing? But as a physician, I think that you actually have some protection from that because you have a purpose of being on social media. You're not on social media doing TikTok dances, you're not on social media doing your makeup. I mean, I do, but you know, trying to get like a brand deal with Sephora. That's not what you're here. You're on social media educating. Okay. And so whether someone, whether someone, you know, watches your video or not really depends on if what you're discussing is something they need to be educated on, right? It's kind of like giving a talk at a conference. Everyone at the conference doesn't come to your talk because they're not interested in the topic, okay? You know, and so I tell physicians, you know, you can kind of take some of that pressure of, oh, is this cringe or is this embarrassing off of your shoulders? Because your intention is not to, you know, be to be have a million followers or to be the next big influencer and, you know, to be filming your get ready with me. Your intention is to educate. It is the same education that you would do if you had the time with all of your patients in clinic. And so, you know, yeah, your views may be a little bit lower, but you're talking about science. And as we have said, as David has said, no, we have the data that shows that that sensationalized, fear-based video is going to get a million views, whereas the, you know, regulated, calm, data-driven, factual information is just not going to get pushed by the algorithm. So while you may not be coming up on patient speeds initially, people who are searching that information will find it. And when physicians say this to me, and they do, they go, Oh, well, I'm not getting any views, I say, okay, how many views did your last video get? And they say, 150. I say, how long would it take you to educate 150 patients on that topic? That's true. Right?

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Have you seen a room with 150 people in it? That's clear. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

That's a lot. That's a lot. You're talking about a very specific neurological condition. This is not something that the general public is necessarily interested in. Okay. Right. And so if this these are people looking for this information, how long would it take you to one-on-one educate 150 patients? Okay. So that is a win. That's 150 people that have valid medical information over the bull that they could be getting elsewhere. And so again, if you could, if you could stop one patient from doing something that harms themselves because of misinformation on social media, you have won. You have won. You have won as a physician because that's what we're all here for for the patients. Right. And so, you know, I I can't I have 221,000 followers on Instagram. I don't see 221,000 patients in my career. Like, do you know how long it would take me? I I have a video I just did an I did an epilepsy video uh two days ago to to kick off epilepsy awareness month. And I think it has, gosh, maybe 50,000 views. And I talked about three things that I wish everyone knew about epilepsy. Do you know how long it would take me to tell 50,000 people that? That's such that reach for epilepsy and for science and for valid medical information, that's amazing. That didn't happen overnight. There was a time when it was 100 views, then 500 views, then a thousand. But again, you look at those numbers and think, think of it in terms of the number of patients and how long you would actually take to do that in person. And to me, that shifts that perspective. Because it's not about views when you're a physician, it's about protecting patients.

unknown 49:51

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

I love that. Now, la one of the last questions as we close up here. I we may have actually different opinions on this. I'm very intrigued. So as this could be a little projection. I do not have a medical license. I would argue there are, like you said, very knowledgeable people out there on social media doing the good work that don't have doctor in their name. What is your opinion on in on scientific? There's a I just keep seeing out a lot of the med the med talk people that they're they're almost challenging to believe that you can't talk about anything even close to health if you don't have a medical degree. So what I was like, I personally I think it's an over it's an over I understand the the desire to control the information because there's a lot of grifters making money, but I'm also like I'm like, that's my thing. I I as much as I maybe they can maybe create a a a secondary profile where it's like, yeah, when you're about this is the medical doctor segment, and anyone who's in this, but making not allowing anyone without a medical degree to make like scientific, I think that's an overcorrection. Australia's trying to do it. Australia's trying to do it right now.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah, yeah. So I think that I actually have a big following in Australia, which is I don't know why that happens. And I actually say this to people again when physicians are like, oh, what am I? I say, I have never even been to Australia, okay? And I have a following there of people who I am educating. That is so wonderful, right? That it's so the reach that you have on social media as a physician is just unlimited. And so, you know, when it takes off, and it will, all right. And a lot of us promote each other, okay, because we we want more legitimate voices on this platform, you will be it, it is it has given me some fulfill, it has given me some of the fulfillment that that practicing medicine I've lost a little bit just because, again, the rush, the the the burnout, you know, it I get that fulfillment in in educating and and you you would be surprised. But to go back to your your point, I think that we need to have some regulations in place regarding these individuals who are out here making unsubstantiated claims and causing harm to patients. And yes, there are some things, you know, the FTC, you have to be if you're selling things that polices them to a certain degree, uh, but not as much as they ought to. You know, I've said all the time, I wish, you know how you could get a little check mark for being verified on Instagram? I wish there was another check mark for being like a verified physician or MD, a scientist, some sort of credential, so that patients will say, Oh, this person actually is an expert in this and this. And this is why a lot of us put it in our bio that we are physicians. But if you go on these thrifters pages, what do they have on the bio? Oh, brain health expert. What the hell does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 52:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

You did a weekend course, like I, or you just you you're using your lived experience.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Lived experience for 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah, lived experience. You know, I've I've had this conversation with people before. Lived experience is very valid, okay, but it is not synonymous with medical expertise. And so I've I actually said this in one of my last podcasts that I did, and I've I've said this to my patients. I am an expert in the science of your condition. You are the expert of living with your condition. We come to the table as two experts and we work together to make informed decisions that best serve you. Okay. So I am acknowledging your expertise of having living with this condition. Okay, but that is not synonymous with medical expertise. And this is almost exactly what I said in the last podcast. Your lived experience does not translate to someone else's lived experience. And that's where that boundary exists and where a lot of people cross it, and then we get into really dangerous territory. Because as physicians, uh, we know that the medication that works for me might not work for you. The side effects that I have may not, you may not have. Okay. The way that my epilepsy manifests is not the way that someone else's epilepsy manifests. The way that my migraine, the way that your migraine, it's different. And so why would you think that your lived experience is going to automatically translate to the lived experience to the millions of other people with this condition? And so when you get on social media and you say, oh, I have lived experience of having migraine, having epilepsy, having whatever the condition is for 20 years, okay, that's valid. I'm not trying to undermine that. That is something that I am not an expert in because I don't live with that condition. However, that 20 years of living with your condition is does not automatically translate into what worked for you will work for all of your followers. And marketing it as such is dangerous. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

It's literally exactly my obesity transformation. I've been down 200 pounds for over a decade, and I will never tell I didn't have weight loss surgery. But am I going to tell anyone, well, because I did it without weight loss surgery, no one needs weight loss surgery. Correct. No, like there, that's it's a valid play.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

It's the human body. It's it's complex, y'all. It is complex. Yes, it is. Okay. And so um, you know, going back to your point, should individuals who are not MDs or PhDs. No, you can be out, you can be out here educating and discussing your experience. So if you're a nutritionist, you're a physical therapist, you are a Pilates coach, a yoga instructor. As long as you are transparent with people about your credentials or your expertise and the limits of your expertise, I am fine with that. Okay, look at medicine. Laura, when's the last time you did a cardiac calf, girl?

SPEAKER_01 55:32

It's been a few years. Nope, never.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

When's the last time I did an endoscopy? Okay, I'm a neurologist. Okay, when you tell me you got chest pain, I'm calling a cardiologist. Why? Because my expertise starts and ends with neurology. I acknowledge the limitation of my expertise, even within the realm of neurology. I'm an epileptologist, okay? If you come to me with some refractory multiple sclerosis or, you know, a movement disorder that, you know, I can't get under control within the scope of my general neurology knowledge. I'm calling in the subspecialist. Just how my colleagues in general neurology, they can start you on a seizure med. And once you fail that second seizure med, they're calling in the epileptologist. We respect each other's expertise and importantly, respect the limitations of our own expertise. And we have been taught to do that through decades of medical training because we understand accountability, liability, and the cost to patients if we do not acknowledge the limitations of our expertise. And that is something that people on social media do not have. They do not have a license to lose, they do not have the medical, leal, medical, legal training and background and you know, fear of, you know, uh legal ramifications. And they so they can make these overarching, sweeping claims without any repercussion whatsoever. And they can extend far beyond the limits of their expertise. And a patient who is struggling with a condition, is frustrated, is terrified, and is just looking for answers, is not always going to be able to tell the difference between that person who's claiming to be an expert and promising them a cure for their epilepsy, and me who says I'm an MD and is saying, Hey, we don't have an answer for this just yet. Right. And so this is where I say, listen, man, you want to be on social media and you want to share your experience. I love that for you. Go ahead. Okay. Just be transparent about who you are, what type of expert you are, what your credentials are, and be knowledgeable yourself of where the limitations of your expertise exist and make sure your followers understand the limitations of your expertise. And I actually demonstrate this quite well for people. They say, Oh, Dr. Lil, I followed you for so many. I said, Okay, cool. Have you ever looked me up to confirm that I'm a doctor? Have you ever looked me up to confirm that I am who I say I am, that I am an MD, that I am a neurologist and an epileptologist, that I am in fact boarded, okay, in both neurology and epilepsy. And not one person has ever said yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

That's funny. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Look it up. Look these people up. Right? And so it that just goes to show that a convincing voice and a ring light sometimes is all you really need to draw people in. And while my credentials are valid and the information that I am giving people is evidence-based, others with the same ring light and the same stage presence do not have those credentials and are out here making far more dangerous claims that people are consuming and believing.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

That is beautiful. And I think we could keep talking to you, I think, for a year.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

Oh my god, hours and years.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Maybe we'll apply a grand rapids. Oh, perfect. Come visit. But we'll have to. I need to come up there. I need to come up there anyway. Hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

You just showed it. You just showed it. We're gonna close on this because I'm offended. You are consuming cytocobalamin right now. Oh, well. I would like I would like to put it out there that this neurologist, she was she was emailing us at 2 40 in the morning this morning, and she's ripping some caffeine and she's taking it on cytomicobalamin. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Well, okay, and oh wait, before we close too, I gotta know. Okay, your dog, please tell us the name. Is your dog's name Bear? Is it really Bearton? It's what? Paddington. Oh, pendant, that's right. And he's a Newfoundland. Yeah, he's a no pee puppy. Yeah. If you are out there, people and you like dogs, go watch her videos. And I got three.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

I got Everly. Uh-huh. I got Everly, who's the eldest. She's an eight-year-old five-pound Maltese poodle shihtzu mix.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

I've got Oberyn, who's seven years old, and is a chocolate lab.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

And then I got Paddington, who is six months, seven, six months old, and is in Newfoundland. So I say all the time, age is inversely proportional to size in my house. Okay. And we are having a great time uh with Paddington. But yeah, his name is Paddington Bear.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

So, oh, perfect. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

I love Paddington Bear.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

He does. I think it's perfect. I love the dog video. Sunny Bear. Yes, that's true. You do call him Bear as well. And then, okay, how was your trip to the French Riviera? Because it looked amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

It was great. It was great. You know, my uh my husband and I, we we work seven on seven off. So we try to we try to do like two trips a year. So we did Rome in April, April, I think. And then we always mix in trips to the Bahamas and Toronto because my um my family's in the Bahamas, his family's in Canada. So we kind of do that in between. And then we we have like two big, big European trips. Frank River Bear was amazing. It was, you know, the culture there is just it reminded me of home. Did it really? It was so interesting because the laid back, you know, I think it's just living by the beach, y'all. Yeah. Like you just, you know, you're just chilling. You know, we went, you go to lunch and it's it's a Thursday afternoon and it's lunch. Everyone has a beer or a cocktail, and they're going back to work, you know. You know, and they're having their cocktail. Everyone knows everyone because it's small. You know, everyone is so friendly. You know, you go there, and and the thing about the French Riviera for anyone who's considering a trip to France, you know, I know when people think France, they think Paris. Paris is amazing, it's beautiful. Okay, fine. Um, but it's it's a lot, it's kind of like going to New York, right? Like they're like, oh, get out of here, get out of here. French Riviera loves the tour, they love tourists because it's it's a big industry for them, right? Just like the Bahamas, okay? And so you go there and they go, Oh, you're visiting? Cocktails on me. Or, you know, we we we here's an extra thing of bread. Welcome to the French Riviera, or welcome to France. And so it's such a wonderful culture down there. French Riviera. A Mafi Coast is the same thing, no, because it's all the same, right? It's all just kind of attached. You just cross it. It's beautiful. Everyone should go at least once. It's so relaxing, so calming. The people are amazing. It it was just it was the it was one of our uh better trips. I think one of our best trips.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Well, it was super fun to get to know you and learn about your experience both in neurology and social media. And I think you said so many important things for people to remember. And we are excited to put this out onto the our socials, and then everyone go follow. It's you're at what's your hand? Barbie. Dr. Brain Barbie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

Dr. Brain Barbie. And I think it it it kind of hits very closely to home here. And it's I think the irony is gonna be fantastic. What ready for this? You ready? Ready? Since doctors are held to a higher standard than everybody else, than what people want to comp complain, uh, say most of the time. This is not medical advice. Seek your own physician before anything. This was an educational purpose. Hopefully, you got some great knowledge out of this. Uh, the person that doesn't actually have to worry about losing his medical license, I'm gonna say this because why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Thank you. It's important.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Thank you for saying it for us because we appreciate that disclaimer. Me, accountability. Look it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

And who knows, maybe we'll see you someday in Grand Rapids or do another podcast with you. This is super fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

I would love to. Just call me up, girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

A pleasure. And with with that being said, everyone have a phenomenal day, and we'll talk to you all later.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

I'm