SPEAKER_00 0:00

Years and years and years it seems. All I did was run. And I thought I was doing everything right. And then I did start lifting. And I realized that I had to rethink a lot of the things I thought about health and how I talked to my patients about their health.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I think uh I had the same experience in my life. Like crazy enough, I've told Lara this and she has a hard time believing it. But early on in my weight loss, now I'm gonna go into context of it a little bit. The first hundred pounds of my weight loss, I pretty much didn't do any strength training. It was playing pickup basketball, it was walking and jogging outside, and I was even doing like half marathons. And Lara was like, there's it's hard to wrap my head around that. For a while, I did so much cardio-based fitness, uh, which obviously has its place.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yes, we are not in this podcast saying that cardio is not good or running is bad or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Uh what I will say is if you had to choose.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

This is my always argument. Yeah. You can make a strength training program cardiovascular supportive, uh-huh, but you can't make a cardiovascular workout strength. I mean, there's I think that that's why. And so I thought it'd be a really good episode to talk about the science of building muscle. Uh shout out to Lara. Obviously, if you guys haven't seen it, I think we'll put it in here. Your transformation over the last, what is that, four or five years?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Uh five years, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, is incredible. And so you and your sister obviously have put on a lot of muscle over the last five years. And being some of the top runners, the top uh doing all that kind of stuff in in high school, and then running in college and running in med school, and going from that to humbling yourself picking up a barbell.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Mm-hmm. Oh, it was humbling. But it was actually a really great place to start because I didn't have no expectations for myself.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

So thinking about the science behind muscle, looking at why muscle matters, and this idea that your muscle isn't just a vanity thing. It's it's actually an incredible health organ. It sure is. So walk me through some of the different good, hard science behind why muscle is important.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

So why we want it, you're saying? Okay. So muscle is important for several different factors. And I think one of the big ones that I see a lot with my patients is for metabolic health. So muscle is incredibly important in helping us maintain good blood sugar control, storing glucose, and people that don't have a lot of muscle, I often see them develop prediabetes. So we know that is helpful for that. Um, we also need muscle to put some stress and strain on our bones to keep them strong and healthy. So that's an incredibly important part as well. Muscle is also really I mean, honestly, I mean it's it's can you edit that out? I'm like, what am I trying to think about?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

We'll we'll edit that. But but it like, I mean, when I look at muscle too, it's like I think that's one of the main reasons why I have an A1C of 4.2.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Well, probably, but also because you don't even think carbs.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I eat a lot of fiber. You do, yes. Yeah, you do. Thank you very much. Um but yeah, I mean, how how uh the importance of how muscle helps regulate blood sugar, it helps with mobility and strength. And I mean, obviously there's there's these context matters. The new meta-analysis that was done with 1.9 million people found that the higher your grip strength was tied to a 31% lower risk of death, death from all cause.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, I was gonna say there's a longevity aspect to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

And it's it's one of these things where I'm not a huge fan of someone like do it doesn't mean like this the weird you get into this longevity stuff and you now have people doing grip strength like squeezers.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Like alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Like because somehow it's gonna make you live longer. No. It's an association because people who are stronger tend to have more able bodies and tend to have, because of all those things, have longer life spans and expectancies. Um yeah, th this idea of buying a freaking hand strength thinking that's something like that's I dad used to do that for golf. Yeah. It's just it's so funny. Uh but then obviously the the the quiet decline. I mean, it's it's such a normal behavior that people hit their 50s, they don't strength train anymore, they don't do any of this kind of stuff, they slowly lose muscle over time, and then you wonder why their knees hurt more and their back hurts more and they injure themselves more and they can't do as much because they don't they don't f force their body to keep muscle and all the benefits that come from it.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Well, I think that's I think the misconception people I don't even know that they think about it, but that my muscle's just there and it's going to stay there, that it's this static thing that's never changing, where actually muscle is being broken down and rebuilt all the time. And like you said, uh, I think it I mean by your 30s, unless you're doing something about it, your muscle is slowly getting less and less over time.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I think that's why no like this practi like the practice has been such a pivotal one on muscle that you guys got an in-body, which helps because obviously pure weight has its place, but there's a lot of misconception with weight versus fat versus muscle, and weight is the embodiment of your everything of your body, and it doesn't take into account how much lean muscle mass to body fat you have, it doesn't take into account any of this stuff. And so the importance of tracking body composition is even more important than the pure number on the scale.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Well, right. And I think uh for people that don't know what an embody is, because a lot of my patients have no idea when they see the thing sitting in my office, that it is a scale, but it has the ability to measure or estimate estimate uh someone's body fat as well as their muscle mass. And so we can get a better breakdown of where their total body weight is coming from. And that's where um I mentioned at the beginning that I've had these tiny thin women who tend to then be pre-diabetic. And then when we look at their muscle mass, we said that it's very, very low. And so those or being able to show them that in their body composition, I think is very helpful to kind of understand why it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, because it's like, well, my I'm I'm low weight, I'm thin, uh-huh, I I have to be healthy. And it's like, well, actually, if you have low muscle mass, you can have all these other issues and it could be a precursor for osteoporosis and all this kind of stuff because you're conscious, like it's it's super important. The body takes the path of least resistance. If we know that when it comes to anything, look at astronauts. I mean, you put these very athletic early 30s, mid-30s people up into space, they're in the peak of their health. They're not too old, they don't have any problems. You put them into space for two weeks and their bone density goes down, their muscle mass drops considerably because the body will always get rid of what is not efficiently being used. And so the reality when it comes to muscle, this is a lifelong affair. And there's all if you don't if you don't use it, you lose it is absolutely the reality. And there's nothing you can do about it from a as much as people want TRT to fix it and all this kind of stuff. Unless you're taking the right stuff, like unless you're strength training and stimulating. We're gonna get into the process of the science in a minute here. If you're not doing the things, it won't stay. Nope. Like it's not like, oh well, there's nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

And there's not a supplement or something similar that you can take that's going to fix this problem.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

No.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

It's gonna be some work.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Well, I think there's some really good value behind this. We kind of tease at the beginning. Walk me through your story. Um, because obviously your early-on cardio focused kind of fitness puts you in a position. So, like, walk me through that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah. So when I was in the end of high school, this is how far back it goes, I was finishing up track, track and field in the end of my senior year. And both me and my sister were thinking we didn't really want to pursue collegiate running. We just didn't like it enough. But we were like, we are not gonna give this up, though. If we stop running now, we're probably never get back to it. So we're just gonna keep running and kind of do our own races when we felt like it throughout the community. And so for then almost 15 years, probably, we her and I would run. First, we were doing it every single day, then that our bodies didn't like that. So we started cross some cross-training, but we were doing cardio every day or six days a week for probably 15 years. And we got really good at running, but uh, we didn't have any muscle mass. And as I was telling you you before we started, when I look back in that time, I wasn't thinking about muscle in any way. Like I didn't think that I needed more of it. I didn't think I didn't have a lot of, I didn't think about muscle. It wasn't something that was really even on my radar. I was just like this is in the process of med school. Yeah, yeah, but that was all through that. Um, and we were uh we were doing our running, and then my sister had was listening to a pod, she listened to this podcast. She just got is a mind pump. No, now that now she is, but Jenna loves mind pump. Um, and it was this podcast had one of the hosts, I believe, was a CrossFit athlete.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

And so she was listening to this, and then one day she's like, Do you want to do a CrossFit class? And I was like, uh, I've kind of heard of CrossFit. I don't really know what it is. And so on our 34th birthday, we went to a CrossFit class together, and that's what started the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

We And how was that experience? Well, so the first class we went to let's be honest here, from like a I work out. Yeah, if you're working out six days a week, uh-huh, that's no joke. Yeah. And so you want to talk about like someone who can be like, I work out a lot. So, like, so how was that process?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So, I mean, our first class was it was there was not a lot of people in it, and they were friendly, which is helpful, I think. And it was more so if you know anything about CrossFit, some of the workouts are more cardio-based, some are more strength-based. This was a more cardio-based workout. And so we had a lot of fun with it. And we were like, I'm gonna keep coming back for this. And so we ended up joining this gym. But how you were saying, like, what was the experience? I remember the first class that I was in, it was jam-packed with people, and everyone had a barbell. And the I don't know if it was a snatch or some move, that everyone had the bar overhead. And when the workout started started, the bar went overhead and then everyone dropped their barbells. And Jan and I were in the back of this class and we were like, what are they doing? I was just like, what's going on here? Because I didn't know that's what this was like. And so there's just like weight flying all over the place and just a completely different mindset and people and how they work out. And we realized we were really, really weak. We were not very good. We were really, really bad, actually. There's a lot of technique in CrossFit, and you have to be strong. We had the cardio piece, but that is not all you need for CrossFit. And so we um being people that like to achieve hard things, we are like, we're gonna do this. And we just slowly started learning and getting better. And then we stopped running less, or we were running less and less until really running became kind of a weekend fun thing to do here and there, but it was not at all our focus, and strength became our focus. And I think being surrounded by people who cared about strength was a big deal because you started seeing that people actually cared about muscle. They cared about actually gaining weight. You're like, wait, we're talking about gaining weight here. It was just a completely new concept. And it was actually quite life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

So, because like from that point in in the last five years, how much have you in in we'll just say your story?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Number one, gained in weight.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Number two, strength. Like, do you have like a reference on whether it's a snatch or what you started with and what you're currently doing?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

I should have kept bed better documentation of the actual numbers, but when I was well, when I started on CrossFit till now, I've gained at least 30 pounds. And that was great. This is a good thing. Gaining the 30 pounds is great.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought it's always about weight loss, and it's always about being as light as possible. Nope. And celebrating the fact that putting on weight is a good thing. Is a good thing for the right per for the right person.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

And I mean, if you look at me now, I'm not fat, right? So it's not like this is the problem.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

You still have ab definition. Well, thank you. And uh I can't tell you how many times I still one of my funny ones, uh, when we went to a we went to a wedding on the east side last year, and we go to this wedding, and I knew a lot of people there, and a buddy of mine came up to me and was like, just so all the groomsmen are looking at your at the time, girl uh actually, no, it was no girlfriend at the time. And uh and they were all saying how she has better arms than all the groomsmen. And they were all teasing at this like Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

So uh because well, because I think I'm in the past, before I started strength training, I thought, well, I just have to if I like how I look more, if I just lose a little more weight. That was always the thought process. And I think a lot of people have that thought process until I had it takes a while to change your mindset on this, but you have to realize that sometimes gaining the weight and gaining muscle, you'll actually look better. 100%. And so that was um, it's a lot more fun to to not feel like you're restricting food all the time. Absolutely. So that's where I'm at today. And oh, strength wise, I don't know, but I've probably I mean, I would say maybe an easy one. Oh, that's true. I think I was I'm pretty good at the deadlift. Yeah, but um I think I've gained I probably went for like 160 pounds on deadlift to 270 pounds. Nah, yeah. So that's what and I know I was like back squatting probably like 110 pounds, and now I'm at like 200. So let's go. So yeah, we've definitely made progress. I mean, there's ups, there's blips, ups and downs.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

I mean that's that's how strength works too.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

It sure does.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Brian Shaw just talked about that. Brian Shaw was world strongest man multiple times, and he's done. Done like competing. Done competing. And he was on a podcast, and they were asking him, how does it feel knowing that like you'll never be as strong as you once were and how many these things dropped because you just can't keep it up. It's just not sustainable. And uh he goes, Yeah, it's it's humbling, it's it's it's a hard thing to wrap your head around. That's why he goes, that's why I've fallen in love with all these different unique workouts because I have no association of what my PRs were. So it's like now when I'm doing these new newer unique workouts, it's like a PR every time I do it. So he's like, so I I I I create he doesn't do the big lifts anymore as much because he's remembers deadlifting 1300 pounds or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, so don't just be doing deadlifting all the time because you're never gonna live up there again.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah. So he's he does other things. But that that kind of concept. Um But yeah, then for me, a big one was I would say the a lot of people overdramaticize it, but one of the things that I would say, especially for men, oftentimes like having big arms. I went golfing yesterday and I was with these two uh uh kids from uh that were in at GRCC, they're on the the soccer program there, and we were talking, and on literally the end of hole one, they uh they asked, like we were ta chit-chatting, and uh and they were they looked at me like you're jacked. And they were that because I they had to ask whether they went to school and blah, blah, blah. And then they asked me, I was like, I went to CMU. And they uh and they were like, Did you guys did you play football at CMU? And I was like, I looked a lot different.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Did you show them your transformation picture?

SPEAKER_01 16:19

No, I actually like, yeah, I just looked a lot different in in high school in college, in high school. That's where you left it. Yeah, I just kind of just uh just left it off. And uh and so, but like obviously uh it's not about in general, and same thing with men, it's not about being lean, it's about being strong. And but for me, one of the things that is a touching point that definitely helps the process of obesity and and sustained weight loss, and most importantly sustained fat loss, is thinking about the idea of for every one pound of lean muscle mass you put on, you burn an extra seven to ten calories a day at rest. So, okay, it's not magic, but say over a three to five year time period you put on fifteen pounds of muscle. So that means you're burning an extra hundred to fifteen hundred or a hundred to uh hundred and fifty calories a day. Well, that's that means you can literally eat more food and maintain the same amount of weight. And so there's power in that. I mean, a great example too is like um uh uh Skinner.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Megan.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Megan once I had a I I went to a girl in high school that her name was Emily Skinner. So I always think of Emily Skinner instead of Megan Skinner. Megan Skinner. Megan, she's amazing trainer in the area. Amazing trainer, and she's eating what is it, 3,800 calories a day.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah, she's always posting about eating 3,000 plus calories a day. And she's way shorter than I am.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Exactly. And it's like the power of strength training and putting on lean muscle mass and what it can do. Like my maintenance is probably up to pre-TRT, it was 3,400. I bet you now with TRT with extra muscle mass, I'm probably putting I'm like probably like 3,800 um calories a day is my maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And be part of that is because you have more muscle.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Exactly. And so and before, I remember because obviously tracking calories was a process for a long time. When I was down the weight and I was building sustainability, my I thought my maintenance, this would have been 12 years ago, 10 years ago, was like 22, 2300. Now that could be from metabolic adaptation with all this kind of stuff. But when I really got into strength training and I really focused on putting on muscle mass and I fell in love with bodybuilding, like there's a lot to unpack with that and how accurate I was. But to go from 22, 23, 2400 calories a day to now my maintenance is 3,800. Like that's the power of strength training, of having a good routine, of prioritizing protein. You're this is where optimizing your lifestyle creates sustainability because it's like wait, you can eat that much more because you're doing all of those things. It's like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Well, and I think this is a trap that a lot of women fall into on the opposite side, where they are like, I have to eat less to lose weight. So they they're trying to like slowly eat less and less and lose weight and they're losing muscle. And so then their maintenance calorie keeps dropping and dropping and dropping until the point where they feel like they can't eat anything without gaining weight, because it probably is true because their body has gotten to that point. And then the only thing to do is like they literally have to gain weight in the form of muscle. Yep. But that's a very hard thing for them to wrap their heads around a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, because you're sitting there going, like, they're not prioritizing their the macros, and we'll we'll we're about to be going into the science behind it here of how to put on muscle and that whole process. Yeah. So hang in there. Um because depending on what their protein consumption is and their calorie consumption, their stimulus of of of pushing muscle, their weight loss could be predominantly muscle loss and not fat loss. So you can actually look worse over time. Your weight on the scale is going down. And you can't eat anything if you're not actually making any quote unquote progress. And so that happens.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

It happens a lot.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

A lot. More than more than it should with being the 21st century, with what we know. It happens a lot. Yes. All right. Yes. Science to putting on muscle. What do people do? How do you actually put on muscle and it pipes? How does it work?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

There is one main stimulus. You know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I say it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Say it again.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Well, I there's two terms. Okay. Number one, it's progressive overload. Right. And then also, yeah, the other one is tension.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah. Muscle tension, which I mean progressive overload is leans in on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

But like we said, how how does the fitness side of putting on muscle work?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Well, you have to give your muscle stimulus with the tension. You have to give it enough stimulus. I think that's an important one. Um, and then you have to give it the building blocks and the environment for it to actually grow.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

So I guess because my my way of always explaining it is number one, you need progressive overload. And that that's where at the end of the day, I'm not huge, I don't I don't really care what fitness routine you do when it comes to putting on muscle, whether it's more a uh functional fitness, crossfit style, the more bodybuilding style, there's lots of ways to do it. It always comes down to this fundamental notion, which is progressive overload. You have to take muscle through its range of motion safely, and you have to increase load over time towards failure.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

That's it. Like whether these this this obsession with rep counts and with all this kind of stuff, there's been enough clinical research on this. If you're doing between five and thirty reps, if you're stimulating muscle towards failure and you're increasing reps or increasing weight, you'll be fine. You will progressively overload and increase muscle. Like that's how that works. And so people get so obsessed over ranges, it really doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

But um, one of the things that I think when I see a patient that hasn't started strength training yet, and they want, like they've heard about and they want to do it. One of the things that I'm always worried that they're going to do incorrectly is not understand how heavy it has to be or how hard they have to work.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I was about to say this.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Because I think so many people get a small set of dumbbells and they're like, I'm doing like I'm doing some of my arm exercises, and they got five-pound dumbbells, and they're just doing some half bicep curls here and there. That's not going to give you the results that you are actually trying to get. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Well, because and and it's uh that's where I love working out with somebody for the first time because uh and people hate it. I like I've I've worked out with I mean, even this actually before it was not too much as in in college just because I wasn't that big in a strength trainer yet. Um but at that it was just getting just showing up. But nowadays it is so funny when I work out with somebody today, because they're always like two days later going, Oh my gosh, David, I've never been so sore in my entire life. And it's because they've never actually true failure. Like we're not talking it it is fascinating to me that the va this this is where the the gym bros and their motivational videos actually I think have merit. Is one of the things I love about strength training is it is a controlled environment in a short setting where you get to actually push for failure, true failure. Most people mentally fail way before the body physically. And like I think a Navy SEAL said it one time in a big like in uh in like an inspirational speech, and he was like when you're when you're mentally exhausted, you're 60% of the way there into physical exhaustion. And the the gap between what mental exhaustion and mental failure is, and what physical failure is, it's not even close. And so I love having someone who says they're they work out consistently go through a workout with me where we actually get within one to two reps of of true failure. And you're sitting there like there, they got they they did they did eight, and then I was like, this is failure round. And then I was it's like two more. I was I was like, you got at least six in the tan. At least six, and then you get six, and then the guy, I was like, all right, then there's at least three more, and then it's two more, and then he and then he's sitting there going, uh, then you see the shakes happen. And then now you're actually like, that's what's what like if you actually want to stimulate the muscle to grow, you have to push it towards failure safely.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Like, don't compromise joints. Like there's that that's where that's where having a good personal trainer and stuff like that is very important. But the process of putting on muscle from a stimulation standpoint, people just think they can just grab some five-pound dumbbells and I'm in bed.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I'll do anything, I'll do like, you know, 70% of my one rep max, and you're like, gosh, that was kind of hard. But then you're like, no, it wasn't. Like you're still set only 70% of what you at the max can do. And so I think if you haven't lifted before and you aren't working with somebody who knows what they're doing, I think you're you're it's hard for you to know.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

So many people have such false senses of accomplishment when it comes to strength training. If you've never worked out with someone that actually does it. So, tip of the day, highly recommend go find a friend. If you're gonna get into strength training, putting on muscle, go find a friend who does it and they have the results to back it, and do a workout routine with them and or get a trainer, obviously. Yes, get a good trainer. Because this idea, like most people just again mentally quit before they physically know. That's where the the follow-up to that Jim broke the statement was it's one of the fur, it's one of the only safe environments you can really push yourself mentally and know that at the end of it it's gonna suck, but you're not gonna die. Nope. It's okay. It doesn't really take that long.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Well, and um I had uh interesting, I had a patient who I got her to a trainer. I was like, yes. But then she stopped, she you know, tried it for a month and didn't really like it. And one of the things she told me was that she didn't like that she had to think so hard about the programming. Like she just wanted to like walk into her gym basement or basement gym and like turn her mind off. And I think as anyone who has done effective weightlifting knows, you cannot turn your mind off when you're doing this. Like you have to put your full focus into what you're doing. I feel like if you're like thinking about you're doing a, you know, you're doing a move or a set and you're thinking about what you're doing later that day, you're not working hard enough.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

It's it's locked in focus. That's where personally, with even with my personality, where I love being charismatic and being with people and talking in the morning. I put on some angry music.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

When you're at the gym.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

At the gym. And like I just put my headphones in, I'm locked in, and I don't really talk to anybody. I do get my six sets of communication in because you lose gains if you don't get your your communication sets in. Um I've never heard of it. It's like gym selfie sets. If you don't get your gym selfie sets, you're losing gains.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

You know, some gyms don't let you do gym selfies.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

But they don't optimize gains. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Do you remember we got yelled at by some lady at Planet Fitness because we were using our phones? We take pictures.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

We did a flex in the mirror, and I get it. We're too good looking. We're too, we're we're just too hot for Planet Fitness, and we got yelled at for taking a gym selfie. It was super funny.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

I mean, I didn't know that was a thing because I don't go to Planet Fitness normally.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

They don't judge people, but they judge people.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

This I do.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Um, okay, so stimulus, progressive overload, pretty straightforward. I promise people doing the hard thing is worth the results. And so understanding the process, it's the 45 minutes hour session of really pushing muscle towards failure, it's uncomfortable. It doesn't always feel good. I will say this is a good uh vetting point. If you're working a muscle group and you're an hour and 30 in and you haven't like you feel like you still have more in the tank, you didn't. You're not working you're just not doing enough load and tension and work.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Well, and one thing though, I want I know one thing I want to make sure people realize too, because you said this early on when you were working with working with a friend and they're like, oh my gosh, now I'm so sore. Being sore is not the sign, though, correct, that you had an effective muscle building workout.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Correct. That one's still it's still that's still prevalent on the internet today. Where it's like, oh yeah, if you if you if you don't feel sore, you didn't work out. No.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

No.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

That's why it's important to also track data and know in general, if you are increasing weight or you're increasing reps, you're getting stronger. Like that's one of the best ways to track this process out. That's where having like tracking what you're doing has a lot of merit.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yep. Yep. But without uh or attention on the muscle.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

This is very important.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Number one thing, but you have to have the building blocks. Correct. I assume that's where you were going out.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

That's exactly where I was going. Awesome. You can this this this is a this is a multi-factor thing. You can stimulate, but if you don't have the building blocks, you are not going to optimize the growth. You can add, don't kid yourself, if you're eating protein, you're gonna add muscle, but are you optimizing muscle protein synthesis? Yes. So what does the science say behind how much do you need?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

So I feel like there is a lot of different opinions on this on the internet. But I would feel I feel that the vast majority of people in the strength training type world have an agreement of now whether you do this in kilograms or pounds is always the question.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I do it in pounds.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I do it too. So I have 0.7 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

And more importantly, it's ideal body weight or lean body mass. So, for example, if you're listening to this right now and you're 330 pounds, no, you don't have to eat 20, 260 grams of protein. It's based upon lean body mass. So if you were to cut off all the fat on your body, what is that weight? That's that's the amount of protein you should consume per day. 0.7 to 1 gram. To one gram. One the the data is not as strong. Uh but if that's the same. I say at least 0.7. Yeah, at least 0.7. And then obviously, as you get more towards one gram, it has more to do with trying to burn body fat simultaneously with gaining muscle, just because you're increasing that protein, which increases the thermogenic effect of food and metabolism, there's other benefits to doing that. But just from like optimizing. And if you want to get really technical, which we're not, you get into leucine and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

MTOR.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Yeah. And so at the end of the day, if you're diversifying your protein sources and you're getting around 0.7 grams per pound in lean body mass and protein for a day. So let's just say hypothetically, you're listening right this right now, and you're a 230-pound man and you're 30% body fat. Okay. So take off 30% of 230. So let's just say you're 180. So your lean body mass is 180. So you should eat between 150 to 160 grams of protein of a day.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

So that's 0.7 times 180.7.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Guess rough numbers. I did not AI that I think I'm pretty close. Um, but that's the general how that works. And and most importantly, with protein, at the end of the day, it's amino acids, is what you want. And I don't want to people overly dramaticize this. If you're getting a diverse source of protein, you're getting eggs, egg whites, you're getting beans, you're getting legumes, you're getting lean meats, you're like this plug, if you're getting a diverse, you're getting whey, uh, if you're diversifying your protein sources, you'll hit your leucine and your amino acid complex you need.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

And there's plenty of podcasts online or that will go into the details of this if you care to find them.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

But again, if you're hitting 0.7, I promise you, you're probably fine.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

David, does it matter when I eat that protein?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

No, that clinical research has been more and more and more debunked. Uh the metabolic window, guys, has been thoroughly debunked at this point. There's this there was a belief that if you didn't have a certain amount of protein within 30 minutes of your workout, a lot of your gains was left on the table. That's been thoroughly debunked. Uh the next one is is uh do you can you can can your body only absorb a certain amount of protein in a meal? At this point in time, our limit is at 100 grams in a meal. And that's only because the discuss went up to. So the more this the more the data and the studies are coming out, there's not there hasn't been a limit put on it. Right. I think there's benefit to broadening out your protein throughout the day, eating more meal. It makes it a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Well, because I think I what I see is a lot of people that they're trying to get all their protein in at dinner. And if you have to eat, I don't know, 120 grams of protein and you want to get that all at dinner, like good luck.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Good luck. And so, yeah, 100%. So generally the way I if you get three solid meals, you can get close to your goal.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Uh, but anything less than that, it's just difficult. That's where like OMAD in particular has a really like people that do this. One meal a day. One meal a day, you're gonna hit 160 grams of protein at one meal. Good luck.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

And I think um when people haven't thought about their protein intake before and they calculate their 0.7 grams per pound of ideal body weight. I think sometimes people are like overwhelmed by the number and they think there's absolutely no way that I can get that much protein. And so I always, I mean, I encourage people like, well, just start with a lower number and let's slowly work it up because it does become a lot easier the more you do it.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

And I for for reference, I probably average around 250, 260 a day.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yeah, David has no problem. It's I'm probably 150 to 190.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah. And it's also interesting to know with this whole bit when it comes to protein, this is why from a from a weight loss perspective, where the biggest hack in weight loss is prioritizing protein, because you sit there and go, okay, I need to hit 100, like I can't tell you back in the day with the with clients where they're struggling to hit calorie goals because they're trying to hit their protein goal. They're sitting there going, David, I know my goal of calories per day is 2300, but I I I'm so full trying to hit my protein goal that I struggle to hit 2300 calories a day. And I'm always like, Isn't that like magic? You're sitting there eating less than you ever have and feeling more full than you ever have. Again, this is one of those hacks to fat loss is that prioritizing protein, prioritizing strength training can help the process of sustainability and consistency just in the process.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Absolutely. Anything else on protein?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Protein, that's that's pretty much it. Eat it. Awesome. You probably will have to choose, ideally choose leaner sources of protein. Yeah. Instead of 80-20 ground beef, 91-9. Um, when you're thinking about instead of chuck roast, you find instead of the ribeye's top sirloins, because that's where the calories jump. So when you're thinking of protein sources, I would recommend. Oh, and this may hurt some people's feelings. It really frustrates me to even put it on a on a jar. Peanut butter is not a good source of protein. They put seven grams of protein. And how much fat? It's unreal. It drives me nuts because of the protein obsession.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

And we're not saying that peanut butter is bad. It's just not a good protein. It's just not a great protein source. It's a very good fat source, though. It tastes good.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

It's annoying. The amount of things that now they just put the amount of protein on it just to try to trick you, going, Oh, there's protein in this.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

It's like there's a lot of foods like that. But all right, what else is important for muscle protein synthesis?

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Sleep. Yes, it is. It's very much underrated, and this uh help this helps with so many things in life. Trying to get that seven, eight hours of sleep is extremely important for hormonal regulation, for everything. But just most people are not getting enough quality sleep, and it's extremely important.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

No, it's funny because uh there's a very popular fitness person on social media, my sister and I were just talking about it. You know, Jordan Saya. Yes. So he's great. He talks about a lot of great strength training things. One of the things he keeps saying more recently, because he has a couple of young children at home, is like, even if you can't get the good sleep though, you're still gonna have some benefit from strength training. Because if you wait to strength train until you have enough sleep, then no parent is ever going to be strength training. So I just thought it's an interesting like perspective that he currently has on this because he's getting poor sleep because he's got little kids, but he's not stopping strength training. He's still benefiting from it. So while it's very important, I'm not saying sleep is not important, and he's not either. The use it the main thing is still the muscle tension that progressive overall, it's stimulus. And so ideally, we're gonna get good sleep, but don't not strength train just because you aren't getting good sleep.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Well, and it's the whole idea of perfection is a myth, progress is a goal. And you there's always places in our lives that we can work to optimize. Optimize and do better and work through.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

I just thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

So here's some get this is where things get interesting. Honest table here. Yeah. We're we got a couple subjects that are definitely some things we gotta work through. We've done plenty of stuff. If you guys want to this this first topic is so important. We've had whole podcasts on it, but it's definitely a touching point because it is so important, which is GLP ones and muscle. And there is still a massive issue right now with GLP ones working too well. And when I say GLP ones, this could be technically there's a bunch of new stuff. These the the new you got the the trisepatide, semiglutide, you got the new stuff that's coming out, just all of these very new agonist drugs that are coming out and how effective they are for weight loss, predominantly because of one simple reason. Hunger. Yes, there's other metabolic pathways you can go into. It fundamentally comes down to hunger. And because hunger is controlled, people are eating less and calories, calorie deficit, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

They're making it easier for people to eat less.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

And so, but the problem with that is it's allowing a lot of people to starve themselves into weight loss and learning the difference between weight loss and fat loss, and you can fall into the same trap some dainty woman falls into, going, eating like a bird is somehow going to make me healthy. And they create the pendulum in the opposite direction. And so it's a it's a warning sign. Like walk me through like how you deal with your patients.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Well, I mean, when I before I start somebody on either semi-glutide or terzepatide, I have the conversation about we have to be stimulating our muscles somehow. We have to find some way to do strength training and we have to be doing the appropriate protein intake so that we can mitigate the loss of muscle as they start losing weight. And I think, as you know, the research shows that it's not this is not specific to these medications. Whether you lose weight from the medication or you lose weight another way, there will be some protein or sorry, there will be some muscle loss. But what can we do to preserve as much as we can? And that's going back to the strength training and the protein intake.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

And so, fair warning, guys, if you're on a GLP one, it's not that that's bad. It's not causing muscle loss. It's the factor of you're not going to eat adequate protein because you're under-eating. You people thinking that just starving themselves into weight loss is somehow gonna make them healthy. That's just not true. Stimulating muscles, strength training, doing all these things is super important. And so you just can't take that out of the equation. We've had whole podcasts talking the depth of you want to look into that, you can. Number two, I'm gonna start this off by teasing because I'm kidding, but not kidding, and this angers, this this frustrates Lara. What there is a well-known, respected uh gastroneurologist, oncologist that came out shedding a yellow flag on a large percentage of law ultra-long distance runners are coming in with colon cancer.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

David, you can't give people the wrong answer.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

So I think running is bad for you.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

David is wrong. Don't listen to him. We could go into the nuances of this study, but we're not going to right now.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

But and it wasn't even actually a study, it was just like a whatever.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Well, it was something it was a study, but um But Rennie Rennie is not a villain. Now you have to if you're running.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, people.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

You can effectively run and strength train at the same time, but you do have to know what you're doing in order to gain the muscle strength within.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

And just knowing cardio and running has huge benefits. Has benefits, and so they're just different.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

When I say running for 15 years was not the best thing for my health, but it did like I learned a lot from it. I did get benefit from it. So there it's not like it was all bad. And I built a really, really, really strong uh cardiorespiratory engine that sticks with me to this day. So you only get that by running miles and miles and miles for years. So I still have that.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I don't have it. So yeah, just want to make sure running is not the villain, cardio is not the villain. Just like so many things in life, it's the obsession, it's the pr it's the maybe putting it in the wrong priority list. That's where things can be troublesome. I will say we're Lara and I disagree a bit at times, being a being a bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

My goal is stretched hypertrophy stimulation towards failure. I could care less how the workout routine works. Let's interpret that.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Let's interpret that. Wait, wait. But let's what you're really saying when you say all those fancy words is he just wants bigger looking muscles.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Actually, exactly. I I like so Lara, respectfully so, CrossFit is this like functional fitness where it's taking muscle or taking uh loads, sandbags, barbells, dumbbells, and throwing them over the head, doing some really cool stuff. Functional fitness, totally cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

It must be a functional medium. These things apply.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Very, very controlled, stimulate uh uh controlled environment where I'm taking this bicep and I'm just taking it through its range of motion towards failure safely. And I don't have to just sit here and throw stuff around and see she drops, she loves to drop bunch of You're just jealous.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

It's so fun.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

You just you're just like taking very heavy objects and just dropping them from five feet in the air. It's dangerous. It's fun. It's dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

I mean, I don't know. But if I uh am going to spend the time strength training, I want it to then apply to my life as well. And that is what functional fitness in different forms can help you do.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

I don't really care about isolating a muscle. You're right. I'm a bodybuilder and I like to just take a muscle, put it in isolation, and push it towards failure. Safely with tension and load and progressive overload. And uh that's how you get these pec pops. David, David. What?

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Who gets more who do you think gets more compliments on their arms? You or me?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Me. I'm I'm not saying you don't get compliments in your arms. But these pipes, are you kidding? I'm out here ripping shirts.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I've never seen you rip a shirt, but moving right along. That's not the kind of ripping we're talking about. I may be impressed.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

I like this shirt too much. I could do it.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Uh I think that's something that we need to talk about barriers. There are a lot. There are. So let's let's walk through some of the stuff. Gym intimidation is a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

It is. When I started doing CrossFit in the community that I was at was very welcoming, for probably three months, I was scared to walk into the gym every day. For three months, maybe even more. And this is like people were welcoming and people weren't mean, but it is hard when you've never done it before.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Because you you just sit there and go, you when you're doing something new, harsh reality, you usually suck.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Yeah, you're pretty bad.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

I don't care what you're doing, you're probably bad at it. And there's this day and age we live in where people don't like to because of Instagram in particular, I feel like social media has done this to people. They love showing the rose-colored glasses of their lives. And so they're always afraid to s for people to see their authentic problem self and weakness self. And so that's where it happens. But like honestly, gym uh imitation. Intimidation. I was saying imitation. Is is a real thing. At the end of the day, people are so selfish with their own lives. No one's looking at each other. Planet Fitness, no one cares. They judge me for being kind of a lunch. But in general, Planet Fitness, these these kind of box gyms, they're a great place to start. It's I mean, it doesn't take a lot to I would I would challenge most people that unless you're planning on dropping a few multi-hundreds, or if not almost a thousand bucks, you're not gonna get enough weight to do strength training at home. Okay, fine. If you're gonna get a full barbell and and a couple 45 pound weights and you and you're gonna drop probably five, six, seven, eight hundred bucks, then maybe you could get away with it at home. Your home gym with your 15 pound dumbbells and your band is not enough for stimulation.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

But I think you can start there. I think you can start there. And I do think um you just can't stay there is the problem.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah, I would just I would challenge most people to believe they're stronger than they think they are. No, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

And so But the thing too is how many reps are you doing at that 15 pounds? Because I agree. I think people have too low a weight, but if they are still going close to failure, they are still going to be effectively using that 15 pounds. I just think who wants to do 30 reps to failure? Because that's just miserable. It's boring. Yeah, it's painful. Like that's brutal to do.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

But yeah, I would I would challenge people. Yeah. But there's but there's also, I mean, again, it depends on the personality type. There's something to be said about going to a gym. Number one, getting past that intimidation of it all. But when you go to a gym, it's like, I'm here to work. I walk through this door, and it's time to step up, get after it. I'm creating this hour-long position of straight of struggle, adversity, frustration, and I'm gonna work through this. Doing that in your living room, I feel like most people can't create the mindset shift to go.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

I agree with you on that. I feel like it is a mindset. I think you can do it at home, but I think most people aren't going to be able to. I was doing some bar dips and pull-ups yesterday. No special equipment for these things, and that's so hard.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

So there are things you can do. Yeah, but no, I 100% see your point though.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

But I mean, and then obviously it's it's so fascinating because like when it comes to gym intimidation, the gym itself, most people don't care. Like, there are a-holes in this world. I hope you don't care what an a-hole thinks, anyways. Yeah. Uh so I would challenge you just walk into a gym.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Be brave. And if my 67-year-old mother can walk into a CrossFit gym and start CrossFit, I feel like anybody can.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Good job, mom. Uh, I think uh the big intimate or the big barrier that I have felt for my patients is cost.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Cost and time.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

There is a realistic financial uh see, but we got planet fitness style at freaking 12 bucks a month or 15 bucks a month.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Most of the people I see now, you're correct. That's fine. But when I worked, when you're a resident and you're in the residency clinic, I'm gonna tell you, some people can't afford that. Like it still does exist. And so there is a cost component. Um, but I think you're right. A lot of time it's it's time. And I think it's people they think they don't have the time sometimes. I'm not saying that there aren't the people that are truly, I can't know. I don't know how they're gonna fit it in, but it's it's so tough.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Like we we can sit here and find the small percentage of the population that truly don't have the time.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

But it's not a big one.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

I don't think it's a big one. I'm sorry. I'm a mother of three, and I can't find any time in my day. There are plenty of mothers of three that figure it out. I'm not saying you're going for two hours. I get it. Your workout may be 25 minutes. Yeah. And that's the stimulation you can do. This idea that you don't have time, I think unless you're in extreme circumstances, which is not the majority, you're just you're just making an excuse. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

And you may not realize that, but I work out with several moms. We had a mom's workout the other week. I went, I'm not a mom, but mom's people that support moms were invited too. And the one uh one of my friends showed up with her six, seventh month, old, anyways, the baby in a carrier, and it sat there while we worked out.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Exactly. And a lot of gyms today, they do have daycare stuff. Now, again, when you start adding financial limitations with deck five, but I know but they're free. Depending on the Orange Theory, I think, may have a kid's the Y does.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Uh what's the new one?

SPEAKER_01 50:22

You know, MVP SportsPlex does, but that's bougie.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Crunch Fitness has one.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yep. So uh but yeah, I mean the this idea we constantly it when put when push comes to shove, it's everyone seeking out even valid arguments on why they don't want to deal with the tough frustrations of the next 25 to 60 minutes of doing something difficult. If it is I'm sorry, hate me all you want for it. Most people are just not willing, for the most part, when they're making these excuses, they find some justifiable argument for 25 to 60 minutes of frustration, of of working hard.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Like, I think if it's if it is important enough to you, you will find the time to do it. Yep. That's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

There are limitations to it. Um are you gonna do a two-hour workout? No. No, but 25 minutes? Like you can do an incredible stimulation in 25 minutes if you're willing to put in the effort and really get after it. So this idea, and that's why I'm sorry, I'm just gonna call a spade a spade. Most people do not have an excuse.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

I think their excuse is they don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

That's fine. But it's I I have this financial excuse. I have this, I just don't buy it. I'm sorry.

unknown 51:37

Great.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Call me an A. Any other barriers you wanted to?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

No, the barrier of the personal person's mind.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Yeah, I think that's the biggest one.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

I think the amount of people, harsh reality check from someone who's been down 200 pounds for over a decade, reverse prediabetes, pretty much every chronic disease that everyone deals with obesity, to some of the best blood work I know. You know of anyone better blood marker than me?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

I mean, I do see a lot of blood blood.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

I'll be a little I'll be a little high-chested here. This is a reality. I wake up, go to the gym every morning, like six days a week. Do I have to do that? No. It's that that's what you just you could do it. Do it. Yeah. Do I still to this day track my macros and make sure I hit protein goals? Could I be a little bit more because I've been doing it for so long, do I have to be pulling out a scale to do it? Probably not. But again, this is a behavior you you instill for the rest of your life. And there are certain things, just like how you balance a budget, just like how you should be looking at your credit card statements and where your food budget is and what your entertainment budget is, your fitness budget, and how you set structure things up for the rest of your life will massively influence how the long-term quality of your health and life end up in not just your 30s and 40s, but your 60s, your 70s, your 80s, and your 90s.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

So who is that person you want to be in 10 years? Think about that and make a plan to get to the rant.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Hey, that was my rant.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

You just cut me off.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Sorry. I was excited. It's not even listening to me. You want to picture yourself in 10 years from now, the person. Oh, good. Thanks. I was listening. Okay. Sure. Say it again. No, we're good. We can move on. No, no, no. Lock it in. Say it again with it.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Imagine yourself. Imagine who you want to be in 10 years. And how can you make a plan today to get there? That's what you gotta think about.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

I love it. It's not with the person you want to be today, it's the person you want to be in five years from the year.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

And if you're if you are gonna say, well, when um this happens and I'm less busy, you are missing out. Don't wait till you're less busy. I do wonder if David just like stares at himself in the camera the whole time we do these podcasts. I do. Sometimes I see you like you kind of like shift yourself and you're looking at your computer, and I'm like, he's just like watching how he looks.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Look at the tricep coming in.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Uh-huh. David, people are not everybody's watching this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Your dad's gonna comment on that one for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

All right, Dad, let's see what you got. Now, uh, I see you put in here the like classic, like, talk to your doctor before you try to work out, which is totally reasonable. I would say there's not a lot of reasons to tell somebody not to exercise, but it is good to check with your own personal physician.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah, there wasn't there wasn't a lot on this episode talking about medical detailed stuff, but do you want to make sure because it's important for liability to make sure the season makes it?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

If um we are not your um medical professionals, so this is for educational purposes only. So please seek the uh the care of your own personal physician or your own personal health care.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yep. Doctors are held to really high standards of all legal issues, contrary to what people think on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Sure are.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

I do my best.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

All right. Anything you want to say before we sign off?

SPEAKER_01 54:56

I thought it was great. All right, everyone on here, comment down below your strength goals, your muscle goals, growths, and what fitness routine you enjoy doing the most.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

You can do this.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

If you haven't given us a five star review, please do. Please do. We appreciate it and share this with people that are looking for the opportunity for strength training and putting on lean muscle mass.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

All right. Thanks everybody. Have a good one.