SPEAKER_04 0:00

Every single week I get reminded by my phone how much time that I'm wasting. Does yours do this as well, David?

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Alright. Um I'm the first one to say. Uh this is a re this is a challenge of mine and in full transparency, people, uh, I will say that my infatuation with social media has in a and Lara's done an incredibly respectful job of challenging me, of being in the moment, because in any opportunity where there's a lull, I quickly just go to my phone and start doom scrolling. And Lara, being very good and gracious and dealing with constructive criticism, has held me accountable to my often doom scrolling.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

I mean, I feel like there's doom scrolling, which to me means I'm just sitting and swiping forever. And then there is almost a compulsion to pick up the phone again. Yeah. Check to make sure there's not a notification somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

All the above. And I think that's an this is a credible episode. On do you have a good relationship with your social media and in particular your phone as well? And on this episode, as we break this down, this is a bigger problem than what people think. And funny enough, I've actually kind of conveyed this point where I mark my words, over the next few years, I thought it would have started a few years ago. There's going to be a whole slew of psychiatrists, psychologists that are all on phone addiction or like this obsession with your phone, they can't break it down.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Do you think it's gonna join the DSM?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Honestly, I think it will. I think it really is going to.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

Uh but as we kind of I was saying if it's not already, I truly can't say I know all the diagnoses in the DSM currently.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

But now you avoided my first question.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

What was that?

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Does your phone remind you every week how much time you spent on it?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Are we gonna look? You ought to. All right. So I want to put this out there. She just got a new phone. Okay. So her her data, her she we have a selection bias right now in this study design of N of two. There's an N of two. There's two people involved. But let's just check. Oh, come on. I I have never this is off the this is off the kilter. Let's look at it, let's look at our social media.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Where do we go?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Uh go to settings. There's screen time.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Where is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Uh screen time. It's under settings.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

We are under settings.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Uh so you go settings, roll, scroll down, see wallpaper. Keep going. It's right next to focus and sound. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Screen time. All right, so I'm gonna pull mine up. Uh now this is on the week. Oh, actually, I'm actually doing okay okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Go to um the month.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

How do I I can see day and week.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Um can't show daily. I don't know why it's not going back farther, but um from this week's standpoint, I'm currently averaging uh three hours and fifty-three minute minutes a day.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

Wait, the week average? So like literally less than two days of data here?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I know, but I don't know how to it says day and week. I don't know how to go back further.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Every single Sunday morning my phone does this. It tells me, I don't know, it's somewhere around 10 a.m. It gives me an update. And I look at it every week. Do you not ever look at this?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Occasionally I do.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

And what what do you see? I usually see all I usually see about three and a half hours, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Well, put it this down. I have to say this. Uh currently I'm 31% down from last week.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

So what does it typically say when you look at it?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Every Sunday. When it reminds you.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

My screen time's high?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

What do you look?

SPEAKER_04 4:11

It tells you every Sunday your average screen time.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

I don't You don't look at that?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Not often. No, because I already know it's high. What do you want from me?

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Okay, uh I guess we we're never gonna know.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

I mean, it's yeah, so right now my weekly average or my daily average for this week is three hours and fifty-three minutes.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

You want to know what?

SPEAKER_02 4:31

What is yours?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Three hours and fifty-three minutes.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

No. Look at all right, that's terrifying. Okay. That that was not what I was expecting.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

So I think we need some mod more data to make this.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yes, we'll have to look at it at another week. Now, usually you could always look at your month in re in review and stuff, and I don't see always app limits, the all.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I don't know why it's not showing me more. No, it's not giving me more than that. Okay. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I know you used to be able to look at the month and stuff. So I don't know. Maybe with the new update that happened all recently that played into it. But all right, then I'm thoroughly surprised. So I'll take that as a win for me today.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

I think that is a win for you. Look for you.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Oh, too funny. But this actually goes in well because uh as we are researching this episode, unbeknownst to us, there was a new study that just came out in the last four days.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

From Oxford and the World Happiness Report that actually did that's I was unaware of this as well. That did an epidemiologic study looking at 50,000 plus global users um tracking their social media and all this kind of stuff and kind of break down some of the different findings they found.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Well, I think it was interesting. So they to say more detail about what they were actually looking at, who they were looking at, they pulled together surveys. So it's mainly surveys of more than 140 different countries, and they would ask real people about their daily lives and their phone habits and their mental health and how satisfied they were with their overall health. And then they looked particularly or specifically at teenagers, so they did 15-year-olds across nearly 50 countries, and they tracked this data for uh over a decade, I saw. And so this is not just like a snapshot of 15-year-olds today. This has been over the past decade or so. And what they were trying to understand was are people getting happier or not? And what is driving that? So, did you uh read some of this study?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Uh the absolute cliff notes. I didn't go to the details, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

I mean, if you there's like a whole website for this study, and it was very extensive. So I think the cliff notes is fine.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Okay. I mean, what one of the things that stood out to me when I was looking at the Cliff Notes, the average person said they're on social media five hours a day. Guilty. I I it's bad. Like I I doom scroll puppy videos just like you. Actually, no, yours is more.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Well, now you do scroll puppy videos because of me. Doesn't it made your life better?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

I mean, it's better than the dumpster fire, which is people's social media is covered in political and war and all this anger towards each other. I'll take puppy videos any day of the week.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

I think they make me happier. So uh and what I saw that this study found was that in 85 out of 136 different countries, young people were actually actually reported being happier than they were 20 years ago. So, okay, great. Interesting. Yes. But in English speaking Western countries, so probably what most of our viewers are coming, listeners are coming from, so this is the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, the opposite is true. So young people's happiness has been falling steadily in these English-speaking countries.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Mm-hmm. So na uh no English-speaking countries made the top ten happiest nations.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah. I mean, I could see that because obviously you're just covered across social media right now. Everything's a dumpster fire. People are so in the in these major like I don't want to just play the bias of like that if you're not an English-speaking country, you're not a uh first world country. That's not true. Right. Uh but in general, when you think about that kind of world, it just seems like a lot of these first world countries right now are just all in just disarray of drama and everyone's angry at each other, everyone's trying to put their will onto each other, people are comparing their lives on to the nth degree here.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Worried about the state of the world in general.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

And so I think the study, they were trying to dig into why this may be. And social media kept coming up. So they not just so like phones are bad, but they looked at different ways people are using it and how people are using it seems to matter. So I don't know if you ran into any of that.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah, I mean, I I did look into that one a little bit, which was like people use the term social media as a grab bag. It is weird to me that some people call like WhatsApp social media. I'm like, that's a texting platform. I don't I don't know why they consider that a social media.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

So what what would you consider social media?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Something that involves social media to me is something that has like an algorithmic engagement to it where um I mean technically it doesn't have to be algorithmic because like Facebook groups, for example, it's not really algorithmic. It's you're joining a group of people that have um a distinct intent of being on that platform. And like like the whole discovery-based versus connection-based environments where like discovery is your TikTok, your Instagram reels, your stuff like that, where it's like the whole doom scrolling, and then you have like connection-based, which is Facebook groups, um, and then different apps that kind of do that kind of work. And it it is it both seems so interesting to me because like when you break down social media, number one, it is fascinating how people the algorithm it gets always this like this evil kind of perspective. Like the world is pushing the algorithm to certain people. And it's at the end of the day, I don't know, this whole puppeteer that uh Facebook and Instagram or whatever major country is trying to manipulate the masses of another country to I mean, is it possible? Sure. I just think most people, like it's again, I go to your social media and it's just full of puppy videos. It's not political at all.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

And it doesn't get towards you have health and fitness and a couple things. And then you go on mine, it's covered in politics, it's covered in fitness stuff, it's covered in you say this to me all the time. You when I get these videos that pop across my social media talking about all these crazy diet trends and all this kind of stuff, you're just like, David, where do you get this from? It's like, well, because that's what I view, which the algorithm is going to reinforce and keep sending you to because it because this is true from like a social media perspective, is remembering when something is free, you are the product. And so, yes, it is very well known that it was not intended for a negative outcome the way it's happening. Social media was derived for you to stay on the platform as long as possible so you can watch a lot of ads so people can make money off of you. That's like that's what's happening. And so, yeah, you get hooked on your whatever your algorithm of choice is, keep on just seeing those videos, and it's just do you like your algorithm? It's fat like it is funny because like half the time my algorithm is I just getting frustrated on something. Uh huh. And it's like I don't want to see this, but I can't look away. It's like a car crash. It's like, I don't want to look at this, but it's right there and I want to watch. And yeah, so sometimes that. Well, it's your fault. It's my fault. Yeah. Like when I see these videos, these fat, like all this carnivore stuff spreading nonsense and all these different people spreading nonsense information. It's my fault because I'm the one keep commenting or I view them to their full duration. Like your algorithm is based upon what you view. It's not rocket science. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

And you've said this too. I mean, like you said, they the platforms are designed for you to stay on them.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

And there was uh some information I was looking up on how and why that occurs. And I know we've, I think, briefly touched on this before, but the whole dopamine release. So dopamine is this hormone that makes people happy, right? And social media is designed to maximize that dopamine release with these like unpredictable rewards. So you just you don't know what's coming next, and like you're waiting for the next thing. And that just like that gives this massive, massive dopamine response to people and it just keeps them coming.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Oh, yeah. And you you get hooked on the notifications of someone commented, someone liked, someone viewed, and it gets you wanting that next big hit again and again and again. And you wonder why people have such a hard time because it's like, yeah, it's um it's not the same thing, but it's attached to it. And this is coming from two people who don't have kids.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Um but we like in my mind, when I have kids, and we when we have kids, if if God wills it for us, um, while yes, there's gonna be a time and a place for using tablets, using this kind of stuff, uh, to keep a kid quiet, I I'm the first one to say, even for me, as uh when there's enough information out there and there's like there's an importance of being able to slow down your brain, detach, go into the environment and not be hooked on information, information, information. Right. I've even experienced it myself when it comes to this anxious feeling. Sometimes when I doom scroll late at late at night, all of a sudden you're just doom scrolling before bed and you've been doing it for all of a sudden you look back, it's been 25, 30 minutes straight, and you get this little there's this angst. Like I at least I do occasionally. If you just if you doom scroll for a while, you can get this like angst to me. And I'm like, all right, even I'm like, this is I'm feeling it right now, and I have to detach.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Do you feel like that it depends on what you're looking at when you get that feeling, or is it just the fact that you're on it?

SPEAKER_02 15:18

It's a good question. I don't know. Um I can't I I would say my social media is not covered in puppy videos like yours tend to be. Uh so it tends it is it is kind of nice. Um I don't know. It's it's hard to tell. Uh but it because it sometimes it just it's that feeling you get. And so it's a little bit more than just what I'm watching.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

It's like something's off almost.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Yeah, just like, oh my gosh, my brain's been focused on one thing for so long and unbeknownst to me, I'm like, all right, this is getting too much for me. I gotta detach.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Well, and then going like back to that study that we talked were talking about, what I thought was interesting is like you said, first of all, yes, they I think include things like Texine and WhatsApp as a part of this social media. But people who use the social media to communicate with with each other like that, Texine, WhatsApp, group chats, they actually show neutral or positive outcomes. But it is the people who are passively scrolling and using the algorithmic content. Those are the people that they saw problems with their happiness and mental health, which I thought that was interesting distinction.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Well, yeah, I mean, because it there's something communicative behind that instead of just like voyeurism. And like and that's where it was actually funny, funny enough, I was talking to a buddy of mine today who him and his wife decided to do a three-month uh detachment from TV. Same concept. And he even said it himself, he's like, two to three days in, I never realized how hooked I was on movies at night, TV shows, and he was asking me for book recommendations. And so You? I know. Isn't that crazy? Well, educational books. Okay. So like self-help books type stuff. Not like distinct.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Not not not book talk. I don't know anything about uh narratives, but he was he was asking purely from like a like a self-help perspective.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Are you saying you want to give this a try?

unknown 17:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

See, this is where I'm like, well, it's kind of that's the hard so Phil always said this to me. He always teased me on my social media time. And it's always a balance because part of what I do is social media, making content, posting, all this kind of stuff. And so you you have to be on it somewhat so you make your stuff, but simultaneously, don't kid yourself. You're getting hooked on it just like everybody else. And so, I mean, even lately, you got most people have been seeing it. I don't post like I used to because I'm so burnt out of the whole game of trying to stay vogue all the time. Yeah. It gets just kind of annoying after a while.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

But because you've also said like they change the algorithm too. And so what you are doing at one point in time and getting viewership, all of a sudden you're not. Oh, yeah. And that just gets frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Well, this the game, the social media game from like a content creator perspective, it changes all the time. And if you're not taking it as like a full-time career, good luck. Oh, you the the types of content that was viral a year ago, two years ago, five years ago, and what it is to now, it just it changes all the frigging time. And so if if that's not your job and career to stay on top of all these, like it just it burns people out. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've met over the years that have had their social media fame, but they can't reinvent themselves and stay with the the quote unquote algorithm. I think it's a tough term at times, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Well, uh so you are doing less.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah. I mean, obviously we're doing the podcast, and the podcast helps keep things relevant because you stay on top of it, but um yeah, I don't do it as much as I used to.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

When I always think that people that I think that it seems like, and I believe research supports this, that people's attention spans are so much less because in part to social media, because there are just everything, it's always jumping stimulation, stimulation. All the time, jumping, jumping, jumping all the time. And no one ever like just stops and breathes in the air and listens to the birds and whatever.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Well, and that's yeah, and that's where I mean I've I'm the first one. We've we've had this conversation buds of times where most people are they don't know how to just let their brain turn off. Like the whole there's some I can't remember his name, um, but it's the whole idea that people are addicted to thought. Like that I went through a huge meditation phase back in the day for that exact reason where um that whole idea that you're so addicted, your brain's so addicted to do it's I gotta I gotta think, I gotta do something that it doesn't know. And then you wonder why you feel anxious all the time. Because you don't you've never actually taught yourself. That's where like as a as your kid up until recently, you just went out and walked through the woods. You didn't think, you just walked. You were in the moment.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

And it's like being alone in your own thoughts. I think some people find that very uncomfortable because they just don't ever do it.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Because I I always think it's interesting that you, when you were in fifth and sixth grade, as you always say. Yep. You said that that was some a part of the school that you were. Good morning environmental school. Yeah. Like you said you had to like go out in the case.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

It's called phonology.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Phonology?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I don't know what where that name came from, but phonology, we would spend, I think it was 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

30, okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And it was once a week, and everyone had we would we were connected to Seaban Park, and we would go to our special spots. No one else could could sit in your spot. So every every spring, I think it's spring and fall you changed, and you would find your spot, you would climb up into a tree, you would whatever, and you had this phonology book that asked you a couple questions, and you had to be deep in thought and just think what's going through your head, what are your thoughts saying? We ha we did that in fifth and sixth grade. And don't kid yourself, it's cathartic. Like being able to like just be one with nature for 30 minutes, turn your brain off, or at least limit the amount of stimulus everywhere, just decompress.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

I think that's such a great habit for that age or any age, but I think that's cool that that school incorporated that.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

And you just don't see that. It's just stimulus, stimmy, stimul, symma, stim, sym, symma.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

If if you said every day I'm gonna sit for thirty minutes now by yourself with nothing, that would be quite a change.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Like what an interesting thing to incorporate.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Well and and just the whole idea of what do you call I I wanna know if you can can tr can say reading a book, prayer, meditation, are all kind of under that same angle to a degree. It's it's central focus on one thing for an extended period of time. Where social media, everything else is just there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

I feel like that's the thing with social media. I mean, other than it's like you're just getting stuff thrown at you. Thrown at you. You're not doing anything other than moving your thumb. Which is fascinating. But I think that uh a big part of why we keep scrolling as you wrote in here. FOMO Oh, 100%. People don't want like you can't not know about what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

People lose their frigging minds. I it has actually been fascinating to me that I've been working really hard myself to honestly detach from all the drama on social media and the internet um and like the world. I think it is fascinating to me that it you wonder why most so many people are so anxious because they feel compelled to know all the absolute drama and evil and hardship across the world. And you wonder why your life is absolutely in shambles. Because all that's all you surround yourself on on social media is all the horrible things that have happened across the world. And I hate to break it to you, until Jesus comes back, it is inevitable. I think so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around that. Humans are inherently sinful. And no matter how many systems we put in place, no matter how many laws we have, evil people do evil things. Is it great to try to hold people accountable? Yeah, I think there's great merit to that. But the amount of people obsessed their whole lives is who killed this one person on the internet? And or like everyone following uh whose mother was abducted. Uh Savannah Guthrie. Yes. Yeah. Savannah Guthrie. And like their lives get caps encapsulated by this. And it's like, it has nothing to do with you, your life. It doesn't affect your kids. It doesn't like in the in the scheme, it means nothing. But people in this, okay, it matters, but like from your standpoint of what you can actually do about it, there is nothing you can do about it. The war in Ukraine, there is nothing you can do about it.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

And sometimes I think that's what where people where some of this comes from is that I feel like you're almost feel like you're not doing the right thing. If you're not on top of these these uh current events, like you you shouldn't be. I almost feel like sometimes that's the expectation. Like if you don't know what's going on in the world. You don't know that this happened over here? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Nope, no idea.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

But it's like you almost, it's not even fear of missing out, but it's fear that you're gonna be like criticized if you don't know what's going on. And so people, I think, feel like they have to know all those details. When up until what, the past decade, people didn't know what was going on all over the world at all times.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

You know, at at like you may have got a newspaper once a month that went over major events in the world, like World War II, this, and a couple things.

SPEAKER_04 25:48

But this is the first time in history that it's been so available.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah, and and uh, and don't kid yourself. I like I think it does a more harm than good because um selection bias, don't kid yourself, we already know this from other clinical studies that have been done. Fear-based information systemically goes through social media at a extremely higher pace than positive um information out there. And so, yeah, if everything that's pain and fear and stuff is going through social media at such a higher pace, you wonder why you're always anxious and fearful, because it's just fear being dumped on you all the time. Never like lack, drama, who's fighting with who, uh Alan Alan Rickman or whatever just got in a fight with his neighbor. I guess he punched him as a video that just came about about it. And uh uh uh Alan uh Rickman, he's uh uh dang it.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

The actor?

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yeah, who's the uh he's in Sirius Black. No, uh not Rickman. That's maybe it is Alan, but that it's not Alan Rickman, it's Alan something. He's uh uh we just watched the Warzone movie. Uh he uh he played really uh a video just popped up across my social media Alan something Rickman, Alan something.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

We can't go without seeing this person's real name. Uh his name is Alan Rich Richson.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Richson Richmond Richson. Alan Richmond. But yeah, so I guess he just punched his neighbor for well, I guess the whole he was dinking around with his kids, doing motorcycles up the street, probably was making too much noise. And I guess from what I heard, they didn't show the whole video, but he got his neighbor pushed him off his bike.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

And then Richmond just See, and these are the kind of things you're like, why is this something that people are finding out? It's just fascinating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

And then don't you know?

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Is this improving anybody's life to know this?

SPEAKER_02 27:54

No, it means nothing, but don't kid yourself. People get hooked on it.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

And I'll be the first one to say, I can't I can't tell you how many times that this whole idea of you're like I'm speaking a little bit out of ignorance here. I don't, I've never actually looked into this, but your brain does have a hard time knowing fact from fiction. And so you're watching something on your phone, and we already know this when you watch scary movies. You know it's not real, but your heart goes through the roof. You start sweating. It's real to you, but it's not. And so you wonder why people are so anxious because all they see on social media again and again and again is death and drama and anger, and it's just encapsulating their life.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Unless you just look at puppy videos. I feel like I have the best strategy here. It's a great one. Um, another thing that I feel like people do with social media that this is not something that I ever feel like I do.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Is like they are feel connected with people. It's like these people on the internet that they have literally no interaction with, they don't know from Adam. They just like feel like they're like friends now or something. But you hear this. I don't get that.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

So I've experienced that from a positive light.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Like the ALG days. Like what John and I created for about two and a half years there.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

Um, tell people what ALG is?

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah. Accountable Life Group. We it was like just post-COVID, because obviously everything was on the internet. John Arpedo and I, JRP's Journey, we started a group called Accountable Life Group, and it was on Obesity Transformations, and we had a Facebook group with a couple thousand people in it. Uh, we had our podcast going, we had clients, all this kind of stuff. And I'm not kidding you. In a matter of two and a half years, we helped at least a hundred people lose over a hundred pounds. And it was this great community uh we helped build. Now, again, it was more than just John and I. There were other Levi was a part of it. There's other great people a part of it. Uh, but you can we had never I mean, think about it. John and I, we had never met in person. He invited me to his wedding.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

I I mean when you got the invite to his wedding, you would never have to be able to do it. I'd never met in person.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Our first time meeting in person. With that, like that and like uh there the amount of th the amount of things that are that way where you can there there is some there is such power in social media from you can build such deep-seated friendships that some some of the best people I've ever met were f primarily from social media in like the obesity transformation space and all that kind of stuff. And it took years for us to meet.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Do you feel like that those connections are they different in any way than when you have connections with people that you see on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_02 30:57

The biggest thing there is the what and how what you're what are you speaking about and the depth you're having.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Like Sure, but I still feel like there's something about like meeting with someone and being in their presence. Do you feel like there's not power in that?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Okay. So I think there is power in that if there's depth. I think depth matters more than physical being in the ph same physical space. The amount of people that you meet on a day-to-day basis every single day, you know nothing about them. They never say anything other than what's the weather. Do you have a deep sea relationship with them? No, it's not a few. But all of a sudden you're on the internet.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

But I'm talking about like friends and people that you see regularly.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Let's be honest here. Plenty of people have very superficial friendships where they're just drinking buddies on the weekends.

SPEAKER_04 31:45

Well, right. But do you think those people are then having more deep connections with people online?

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

You do?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

I think that's so odd.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Absolutely. But again, it's the depth of the information.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

Like But like why can you have a depth if you're having depth with people online? Why can you not have depth with people in person?

SPEAKER_02 32:03

There's a couple things. I think one of the big ones is the depth of someone on the internet, you already have cre you tend to have been put together because of some connection. Like, so for example, the ALG days, everyone was there because they struggle with their weight. And so we had something of deep emotional connectivity where we all knew what someone else was going through. That again, the amount of people's friendships in general and in day-to-day life today that are so superficial. It's drinking on the weekends, it's maybe again, you cross paths at the gym, but you don't know anything about them actually. Like even career people, like your your coworkers, like okay, cool, you see them on a day-to-day basis, that's fine, but you don't know them. But there is power in some of these different groups in the internet, um, on whether that's I mean, again, from uh from ALG days and obesity, uh, it could be women who are like parents who've gone through uh losing a uh child. And then yes, there are local groups that do that as well, but it doesn't matter. It's just having something of deep that's affecting them on a deep seated emotional level that you can connect with, and then you can have depth of a conversation that people actually know you. I would argue most people that have friends don't know about them.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Well, I that could be the case, but I don't think those people are having like they have these deep emotional connections with the vast majority of you know, a vast array of people on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

I think they do more than people in person. That's just because there's also there's also a level of like detachment.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

Right, but that's the problem, I think, is you can detach in a way you can't if you know someone in person. And I think you miss out on things.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

True, but you're also willing to be more transparent to someone on the internet because you know you're not gonna see them again. Now there's a pro and a con to this. There's a pro and a con. There's a pro because I'm willing to be vulnerable in a way with someone on the internet because there is a detachment. I don't see them on a day-to-day basis, and I'm willing to cathartically state that. Simultaneously, there's also an evil, like what we talked about with trolling on the internet, where because there is a detachment of social media, people will say and do horrible things on the internet, on social media, that they would never do in person. The amount of people that say stuff in my like to me on social media, you've seen it. They would never say it to a 6'1, 250 person to my face. Right. They would never some of the stuff people say. But they can because there's an there's an emotional detachment.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

And I'm not saying that you can't have a good connection and a relationship with someone on the internet that you've never met in person, but I still think that that human connection in person matters.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I absolutely absolutely however someone being vulnerable enough to have the convictions to talk their thoughts and feelings and talk in depth matters more than being in person. Now again, if you were to take vulnerability being able to be be have a depth of conversation plus being in person, it's a good wins. But I would say a superficial in-person relationship is less depth and experience and opportunity of like quality.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

But that just has to do with persons like how much effort they're putting into their relationship. That's a whole different topic. Like it's just more work. And do you think people just don't want to put the time into doing it?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

No, I think it plays a role too. Uh-huh. Yeah, because I mean, today, I mean, you wonder why so many people uh feel like they're having less and less friends because they're taking less and less accountability for setting things up.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

To have friends, it takes a lot of work. You have to actually do stuff with those people. You can't just expect them to contact you when it's convenient for you. You actually have to make plans.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you how many friends I'm dealing with this right now. You feel bad. Like um, I have a buddy of mine who's been trying to set up uh an event with all of us from high school and between the crew, we all have different schedules. It's really hard. And you you kind of gotta accept that you're not gonna get everybody.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

You have to accept that.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah. But what ends up happening is nothing happens, and then that's tough too. Yeah. Um and you wonder why people feel like their strongest, best relationships were between the ages of 15 and 25, because people's depth of responsibilities was relatively lean.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

And you saw each other every single day.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Like college. It's like, oh, of course you can have these deep-seated friends in college because you live next to each other, you lived with each other, you saw each other three days, three times a day between classes, and there's so much depth in that, and now it's hard. That's where social media, but again, that also plays into the social media aspect of that same bit because you're getting multiple touch points, the same people every single day that you can't do in real life.

SPEAKER_04 37:39

But are you seeing the real them?

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Up to interpretation.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

I don't know. Here's my strategy you make sure you have one friend that can hang out with you, and then you invite other people. So you at least know there's like two of you.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

That's very true.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

That's what I was saying. That's that's a good strategy because you're like you're not gonna get everybody. You're not gonna get everybody, so at least make sure there's one and then start inviting other people. That's just my uh friend group suggestion.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah. Now it is going back to like the some of the different talking points here. I will say, I think Florida did it, and I'm actually an advocate for it. What making that you have to be 18 or older beyond social media.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

How do they make sure that happens?

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Again, the practicality, that's a that's that's do you because there's an argument to this where because again, the trolling, the there's all of the dark underworld, like dark stuff that I don't even want to go into much on social media and how the evilness of um And it was um Australia. It was Australia. Okay. Um but just like we limit exposure to addictive things like drugs and alcohol to k under 18, you would we've we've come to find out, yeah, social media is addictive. So why are we just uh getting unfeathered access? And then people are gonna say, well, it's a parent's decision. I'm like, well, we don't say that for drugs and alcohol. Um, so let's be careful on this. But I I'm I'm an advocate, at least 16. I still think it's 18. Where now how do you do it? I I you have to show your license.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

I sound like it'd be so hard to actually be able to implement. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I I think it's a I like the thought process behind it as well. I just don't know how realistic it is. But maybe Australia will show us wrong.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Yeah. And then obviously another big talking point is like mental health misinformation epidemic. Like uh what is in inside the uh inside the study, 52% of ADHD TikTok videos are inaccurate. People are being diagnosed by the algorithm and they're not actually seeing Dr. Lara to find out, let's actually go through this conversation and find out are you actually ADHD or whatever mental health issue? Like, are you getting are you going to an actual professional, or are you just finding someone that confirms your bias on the internet and that's a whole thing to unpack?

SPEAKER_04 40:08

That's um half the thing I hear at a one of my meet and greets is well, I'm so confused with all the things I hear on social media. And I need someone to help me understand this all. I hear that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

All right. I guess for us here, here's a question. Going off of it's off of this tangent a little bit. We have kids.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

We don't currently.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

When we have kids, if and when we have kids, when do we allow them to have social media?

SPEAKER_04 40:40

It's gonna be I'm gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

What's your what's your take? We have not planned this. This is not we did not this is a first-time conversation. So let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

We're not making any uh definitives at this point in time.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Well, what is your gut saying?

SPEAKER_04 40:52

But when can you drive a car?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Sixteen. Why would you have nine months technically?

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Well, by yourself. Sixteen.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Sixteen.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

Why why is this something you kids can have before that?

SPEAKER_02 41:05

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

I don't know. It's just a thought.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

There's a piece of me. I understand the argument for cell phones because of emergencies access.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

That has nothing to do with social media.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

I know. But there is a piece of me, it's like, yeah, you get a flip phone with no social media access till you're 18. And then at 18, you can get a social media phone. I mean, I've seen the word like I because I know how nasty the social media can be.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

I just don't what is the point? Oh, I know why a lot of people do it. And parents out there, you're probably yelling at us right now, going, oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Easy for you to say when all their friends have it and it's being you're being just bombarded by your kid over there.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Sure, that it's a lot easier to just give it to the kid. I get that. Um, but I just I I don't see why that would be helpful.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah. And being a strong leader and taking accountability for everything in your life, like part of that game is yeah, uh it it is unfortunate that this is the this is the the rule of this household. I'll explain to you all the reasons why. Because I I I will admit, like, when you have kids and and this isn't even kids, it's just leadership. Uh-huh. Because I said so is not a good strategy. Now, again, talking to a six-year-old and trying to give the seven reasons why you shouldn't touch a hot plate, kind of tough. Um, but in general, it's going to be these are the 17 reasons why and how this structure of this family works, just so you know, this this is a full cycle here. It like these are this these are the limitations and restrictions I have on me as a as a father, as a person. Like, this is what I'm held accountable to. This is what you're held accountable to. And that's how it's that's that's how that's why we made these decisions. And you're not gonna go to mom and get around it because she said 16, but I said 18.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

Well, does that mean you're um gonna change uh your uh social media checking during the day?

SPEAKER_01 43:11

I mean, I'm working on it. Kinda.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

And the kids are gonna be like, but yeah, you check your phone every five minutes. Oh, 100%. That that will have to happen. When there's kids, and I'm probably gonna be like, I'm gonna I'm gonna force myself to 20 minutes or whatever. It's always tough though, because some of it has to do with what am I using it for? Is it messaging back somebody who asks a question on fat loss versus I'm doom scrolling through all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Sure, but does that person need an instant response?

SPEAKER_02 43:46

No, you're right. It doesn't. Well, that and that's that that's where the but you also like we also got to be depends on how much again, there's also the angle too, I'm in a new season of life where it's less about fat loss and helping people in that aspect. And being directly accessible. So it's just, it's a different season of life. But don't kid yourself. It's something I'm gonna have to work on. I mean, I I doom scroll and I have my my struggles.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

It's got real personal, real fast.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

It did. I don't care. It's important to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

It's only happened, correct me if I'm wrong, three times.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

What happened?

SPEAKER_02 44:21

You've politely nudged me to please. And that's about right.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

I think it's been three three like that's very specific.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Hey, can we have a conversation? And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Can you go?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yep, you're right. I mean, again, it's like I love constructive criticism. I just don't like destructive criticism. That's stupid. Well, that doesn't help anybody. Hey, it seems that when we're trying to do something, you can't not detach and jump to the phone, and it just feels like you're not in the moment. Shit, you're right. My bad. That's that's on me.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

We all things to work on. All right. Any final thoughts or last minute points that you wanted to get across?

SPEAKER_02 45:09

I mean, the big one to me, and like I think it's one of the things too, when it comes to there's the passive versus like the community-based social media platforms. I'll be the first one too. Like in general, social media has become such a I would say in general, in most people's lives, it's net negative more than net positive. In most people. Again, we've talked about the ALG days and how incredible that is. Plenty of people are in in great communities that have positive aspects to it. Um, but I would challenge everybody to work on limiting exposure and being very intentional with that exposure. Like, what are you watching? Why? How does that make you feel? And it's now, don't kid yourself, your feelings are not everything. There's there's plenty of valid things that don't feel good, but they're valid. Um, but just getting on to the aspect of pulling back on social media in this day and age is probably a good thing. And being intentional with what you're listening, what you're watching, and puppy videos, totally cool. If it's turning into politics and fitness drama and drama drama, I just don't get the point.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Yeah, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy some politics, but I do think that what comes in is going to be what permeates our thoughts and our minds and our actions, and that's what's going to come out. And so be careful. What do you want to fill yourself with?

SPEAKER_02 46:38

And it's super important to know uh the Oxford study didn't tell us to delete our phones or anything like that, delete social medias. It's just telling us to be intentional with how we're using them. Like it just like vitals and values and the messages we're we're showing, context and nuance is everything. It's you don't have to necessarily get rid of alcohol, even though it's class one carcinogen, but you very much should limit exposures. It doesn't mean you have to eliminate saturated fat, but you gotta limit exposure. You have to understand what is the toxic dose in everything.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

Right. And the study was correlational. This is not a randomized controlled trial. So it is good information still.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

And uh yeah, that was that was kind of everything on my lens. From anyone watching this, uh, how would you rank your mental stability when it comes to social media and using social media? One is you're a dumpster fire and just full of emotional anxiety and drama all the time because of what you see on the internet. Ten is like you don't even watch this because you don't even have social media, and you're like, what is social media? I just have a flip phone. If you have a Motorola flip phone, respect. Respect. There's just too many benefits in having a smartphone in my life. But have a phenomenal day.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Great conversation. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Aye.